Say No To River Hydro

tdogg

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Petition: Say No To River Hydro

Please take 5 min to visit this link and sign the petition.

Also please post the link on your facebook pages and twitter accounts.

Say No To River Hydro

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http://www.avaaz.org/en/petition/Say_No_To_River_Hydro
 
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nicepix

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Before anybody jumps to the inevitable conclusion that 'hydro affects rivers therefore hydro is bad' let me tell you about the French rivers. Over here in virtually every village and town, the river was used to power water wheels used in milling and foundries. Virtually every river has a series of weirs that divert the main flow into channels to power the wheels. Many of the old mills are now defunct, but some of the weirs are being used to generate hydro power. Other than the noise of the hydro I cannot see any negative effect on the river or ecology. What I can see is a great benefit on having weirs controlling the flow and backing water up in times of drought.

We had 24 days of continuous rain in April followed by virtually no rainfall since. The River Vienne is slightly longer than the Severn, here it is 80 metres wide, and yet we had none of the devastating floods in spring you see in the UK, and it is still running despite the drought. Between high flood and today there was around 1 to 1.25 metres difference in height. Back in the UK the Dearne, a tiny insignificant river, could go up that much after a couple of hours rain.

Weirs and dams aren't always a bad thing on rivers.
 

agamemnon

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ok so sign petition and ban hydro power then what you going to do when they build a nuke power plant just up the road from you. i know what id rather have on my doorstep
 

rains

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ok so sign petition and ban hydro power then what you going to do when they build a nuke power plant just up the road from you. i know what id rather have on my doorstep
Yes but we couldd get some really good hybrids like in the Simpsons:eek:
 

tdogg

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You can always close your facebook account after you voted.

@nicepix Fish kill allowance of 100 per 24hr per site and you're OK with that :confused:

I'm not saying that it will kill that amount of fish but the fact that it's there clearly shows that they do expect fish to get killed daily.

Some of these hydros are installed on rivers less than 20m wide, they take about 50% of the river flow from the weir pool, hence you get sediment build up in the weir pool.
 

david harvey1

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Not got time to properly reply to this thread for now but just on the French question, this is worth reading and lots more out there. I believe they have been removing structures not adding more. Ecosistemas_Campa�a Patagonia R�os Vivos - IUCN France signs convention for sustainable hydropower

The UK does not want to get into that position, if it is unsustainable and will cause damage then Hydro should not be built. The promotion of these schemes is from the EA but ultimately DEFRA and DECC want it and are aiding the progress by recently increasing the feed in tarrifs (FITS) for schemes under 500 kw. Developers are not interested in saving the planet, it's comes down to ££££ and lots of them.

There is a conflict that exists within the EA. The Hydro teams who are promoting these schemes and potentially damaging our rivers, then the fisheries teams who are there to protect our rivers, improve habitat, migration etc.

I am sure Jeff W will offer a few comments :D
 
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Jeff Woodhouse

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let me tell you about the French rivers. Over here in virtually every village and town, the river was used to power water wheels used in milling and foundries. Virtually every river has a series of weirs that divert the main flow into channels to power the wheels. Many of the old mills are now defunct, but some of the weirs are being used to generate hydro power. Other than the noise of the hydro I cannot see any negative effect on the river or ecology.
You then quote the Vienne being 80 metres wide, don't know how far inland that would be, but looking at the stats for the river it is far bigger than the Severn, I would think. Discharge being 203cumecs is very high, the Thames is perhaps around 80 in summer, from memory.

Thing is, many continentnal river do suit hydropower, there's enough drop and pkenty of water. Look at the Rhone or Garrone, huge rivers. Our best is the Tweed, the only one that comes close I would think.

OK so many of these hydros being proposed in the UK are small scale, but like Dave says, they rely on FITs to make them profitable for the developers and you (everyone that is) are paying for them with increased power charges. It's a senseless circle that benefits only one group - the shareholders of such schemes.

what you going to do when they build a nuke power plant just up the road from you.
We need more, but they don't have to be 'up the road'. However, National Geographic published a picture a few years back of a young kid playing in his front garden just ½mile from the Three Mile Island nuclear reactor and the fact is, the kid was under a greater health threat from playing in the sun than he was being near the reactor. OK, there are disasters, eg Fukushima, but we are learning from them rapidly. There aren't that many disasters fortunately so learning may take some time.

Rather a nuclear reactor than kill the rivers (by removing the energy and therefore breeding areas for rheophylic species of fish) of this country.
 

nicepix

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Not got time to properly reply to this thread for now but just on the French question, this is worth reading and lots more out there. I believe they have been removing structures not adding more. Ecosistemas_Campa�a Patagonia R�os Vivos - IUCN France signs convention for sustainable hydropower

The UK does not want to get into that position, if it is unsustainable and will cause damage then Hydro should not be built. The promotion of these schemes is from the EA but ultimately DEFRA and DECC want it and are aiding the progress by recently increasing the feed in tarrifs (FITS) for schemes under 500 kw. Developers are not interested in saving the planet, it's comes down to ££££ and lots of them.

There is a conflict that exists within the EA. The Hydro teams who are promoting these schemes and potentially damaging our rivers, then the fisheries teams who are there to protect our rivers, improve habitat, migration etc.

I am sure Jeff W will offer a few comments :D

As I read it; they are intending to remove three of the 60,000 weirs and dams to allow migration of salmon. Not a great deal is it? Salmon are now running up the Vienne which is a similar size to the Severn and has weirs in most towns and villages along its length.

The other matters mentioned such as sediment build up is not a major problem on the rivers I've seen.

---------- Post added at 15:48 ---------- Previous post was at 15:44 ----------

You can always close your facebook account after you voted.

@nicepix Fish kill allowance of 100 per 24hr per site and you're OK with that :confused:

I'm not saying that it will kill that amount of fish but the fact that it's there clearly shows that they do expect fish to get killed daily.

Some of these hydros are installed on rivers less than 20m wide, they take about 50% of the river flow from the weir pool, hence you get sediment build up in the weir pool.

I don't know where you get that information from, but the hydro system in the next village to us has a fish pass, and historically there were water wheels at every weir, in virtually every village along the river. And they are full of fish.

I'm not picking an aurgument. Just letting people know that there might be two sides to the debate.
 

Sean Meeghan

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Interesting!

I think any petition is pretty pointless as, almost regardless of the economic viability, these schemes are being encouraged. In fact I've been informed that the EA has been instructed that they are not to object to them.

The argument that if you object to a low head hydro scheme then you can't object a nuclear plant on your doorstep is fatuous to say the least! Low head schemes can only supply power to a very limited number of homes and will have minimal impact on meeting any energy requirements.

The problem we will have over the next few years is that Feed in Tariffs for many renewable sources of power will be reduced, but that FITs for low head hydro schemes will be maintained by a system of preliminary accreditation which will effectively fix the FIT at a high rate. This will mean that there is likely to be an increase in uptake of such schemes whilst these high tariffs are maintained.

My own view is that the only way we can ensure that every weir in the country doesn't end up with a turbine is to make sure that we let our local MP and the EA know that we will monitor every proposal to ensure that it is viable and will have minimal environmental impact.

Data sourced from Engineering and Technology Sept 2012, The Seeds of UK Energy Change.
 
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nicepix

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Sean, Look at the current situation with rivers. One minute they are flooding towns and the next we have a drought with all the water gone out to sea. Something has to change and managing the rivers is one way to harvest more drinking water, avoid destructive flooding and get a small amount of cheap electricity from it. Something needs to change.

Geoff, The Vienne is a very big river, but there isn't much in the way of altitude drop over the last hundred miles or so. Check the height above sea level using Google Earth. And it is only one of many in the area. The Charente is more like the Dearne I used to fish in Sth. Yorks. Around twenty to thirty feet wide in much of lits length and meanders through farm land and villages. Again, no devastating flood and drought situations. A few shallow weirs here and there control the flow and used to serve now defunct flour mills.
 

Jeff Woodhouse

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It says in that lead "Unlike wind it doesn’t blight views"

Depends on your view. If you like looking at beautiful scenes like this
jeff-woodhouse-albums-strange-things-seen-whilst-fishing-picture3235-marlow-weir.jpg


or something like this
jeff-woodhouse-albums-strange-things-seen-whilst-fishing-picture3186-impression-marlow-plants-4a-m.jpg


Maybe industrial sites turn some people on...:wh:eek:mg:
 

tdogg

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Great images and links.
can you DM copy of the (something fishy) article

UPDATE:
Ive quickly found out that many forum users will not sign due to you need to have a facebook account.

So I've made a new petition here

Say No To River Hydro

No facebook account needed.

Admin's please think about putting a site wide link in the forum template

---------- Post added at 09:10 ---------- Previous post was at 09:04 ----------

found it here
Something's Fishy - Power Engineering International

Hydroelectric power is bad for the taxpayer and bad for the environment? Why does no one say so?

Which is the best, most eco-friendly form of renewable energy? Most of us would probably guess hydroelectric. Unlike wind it doesn't blight views, chop up birds or drive neighbours mad with humming; unlike solar, hydro installations do not appear so dependent on massive public subsidy. Plus, of course, we live in a land of rivers and rain so it makes sense to harness The Environment Agency certainly thinks so. Out of 26,000 possible in- river sites around the country, it has listed 4,000 as ideally suited to hydro power development, and is licensing up to three a week. Already, around 17 per cent of the world's electricity and 90 per cent of renewable power comes from hydro. What reasons could there be not to join this green energy revolution?

Quite a few, actually. Besides being at least as unpredictable and costly as solar, within our small island hydro power turns out to be every bit as environmentally damaging as wind. It kills and mutilates fish, trashes historic spawning grounds and wipes out dependent ecosystems.

As with wind power, property rights are ignored. And all this at the taxpayer's expense.

It all started with such good intentions.

In 1890 a group of Benedictine monks built a hydro turbine in Fort Augustus abbey in the Scottish Highlands, powering the local village. Similar projects expanded on a bigger scale, and when electricity was nationalised dozens of massive plants were built. In the 1960s children were told that, one day, electricity would be free thanks to the new turbines whirring away under new dams and lochs. This may have seemed plausible in the Highlands, but extending this policy to flatter, dryer parts of England is causing mayhem.

Consider the case of Nottingham Angling Club, which in 1982 paid £150,000 for one and a half miles of fishing rights immediately below Gunthorpe weir on the River Trent.

For a working men's organisation this was a considerable outlay, but funds had accrued from its large membership and popular fishing competitions.

hydro turbine. The evidence from continental Europe - where some similar schemes in place for over a decade are now being ripped out - suggests that hydro power can damage the ecology of rivers and cause fish stocks to plummet.

This is not, of course, something you'll read in the promotional literature of the hydro power industry. 'Good for energy production. . . Good for climate change. . . Good for biodiversity, ' boasts the website of the Small Hydro Company, which is developing Gunthorpe Weir.

It claims: 'Far from harming biodiversity, our hydroelectric installations will actually be good for the biodiversity of navigable rivers. While screens deflect fish away from the electricity-producing turbines to ensure that migrating fish are not entrapped, entrained or impinged, the installation of fish passes at weirs will remove a barrier that has impeded migrating fish and eels since the rivers were made navigable in the 18th and 19th centuries. There should be an increase in both the number of species and the total number of fish due to these new fish passes.'

So much for the theory. In practice, research by Mark Lloyd of the Angling Trust suggests that the 'passes' and 'screens' (the escape routes for fish) are not efficient. Salmon, sea trout, eels, barbel, carp, chub, dace, roach, perch, bream and pike all move up and down rivers to feed and breed. Turbines disrupt this process, first by slicing and dicing those fish unfortunate enough to swim into their blades; second by blocking migratory pathways; and third - because water flow slows in the turbine - by causing weirs to silt up and become under-oxygenated, which harms small species and invertebrates.

At Gunthorpe, most of the river's flow will be directed through the turbines, slowing it from 45 cubic metres per second to under 12 at the exit. This is slower than the worst flow recorded here in the famously dry summer of 1976. A Nottingham Angling Club committee member, Dave Turner, bitterly observes that in the name of green energy the Environment Agency has successfully ensured that this stretch will face 'drought conditions all year round'.

One of the more bizarre details of Gunthorpe's operating licence is that it is permitted to kill 100 fish and eels in 24 hours before the turbine is obliged to shut down. This, the company told me, is in addition to other protections for fish and eels. But besides calling into question the Small Hydro Company's claims to eco-friendliness - if passes are effective, surely they shouldn't kill fish at all?

- the kill quota will be so hard to monitor as to be meaningless.

Dave Turner believes monitoring is unworkable, because someone would have to catch the mangled fish as the turbine spat them out and then reassemble the body parts. 'The quickest anyone from the Environment Agency usually arrives for any pollution incident is an hour, and within that time, a minced fish could be miles downstream, ' he says.

But there's an even murkier aspect to the Gunthorpe project, and that's the involvement of the government quango formerly known as British Waterways. This body should have ensured that when the Small Hydro Company made its planning application last year the club - as a direct neighbour - was made aware. 'But we only found out when the man from Environment Agency fisheries phoned out of the blue, wondering why we hadn't responded with only a week to go, ' says Turner. 'British Waterways since apologised for their poor communications, but it's too late to stop it now.'

British Waterways emerged as one of 190 quangos the coalition government wanted to axe, so it morphed into the Canal and River Trust in July, having earlier prepared for its self-funding future by buying a 10 per cent stake in the Small Hydro Company Ltd, among other commercial initiatives. The purchase price was exempted from disclosure in a Freedom of Information request, but British Waterways has revealed that it hopes to make £370,000 a year from hydro power.

The Small Hydro Company now has five turbine proposals with planning permission and licensing on the Trent, Don and Ouse.

Richard Mercer, utilities manager of British Waterways/Canal Trust, said this commercial arrangement was considered an opportunity rather than a conflict of interest, and that it was 'entered into four or five years ago in the early days of hydro when we didn't quite know what it would generate'. He added:

'British Waterways wouldn't have gone into this with a view to killing fish - we stock fisheries, we don't kill fish.'

the spectator | 1 september 2012 | www. spectator. co. uk W E To anyone who has followed the green energy racket in Britain, this is a familiar story. As with the wind and solar industries, a handful of vested interests are working in league with government agencies to exploit fashionable ecological concerns and push through money-making hydro schemes of no obvious benefit.

And so far they're getting away with it, partly because of the industry's propagandising and partly because of the public's rosetinted predisposition towards what, on the surface, sounds like the kind of lovely, clean, natural energy Britain enjoyed in that golden era when Constable painted Flatford Mill.

The hydro industry exploits this nostalgia shamelessly. Many turbine proposals are community-based, in towns of the industrial revolution whose prosperity was built on a watermill now lovingly maintained as a museum piece by weekend volunteers. There is a romance in turning back the clock, and the bonding potential of doing something collectively for the carbon footprint.

But the real-life sequence of events often starts with a five- or six-figure consultancy bill - internet research only gets you so far, as no turbine supplier finds it useful to publicise performance data - and often a weary decision to give up. Communities that persist with the plan inevitably discover that their turbine will never pay back the cost of installation, let alone pay for decades of upkeep.

How much power do these turbines really generate? The only in-river scheme candid enough to publicise output is Torrs Mill on the river Goyt in Derbyshire. Garlanded with awards, this was the UK's first community-owned turbine and, at £330,000, one of the least expensive. Torrs Mill was cautiously estimated to generate 240,000 k h a year but has averaged only 150,000 kWh since opening five years ago. The only beneficiary is the next-door Co-op supermarket, an investor, which receives about two thirds of its electricity needs. The start-up loan has 15 years to run but Torrs Mill wants to modify the turbine and needs to borrow more. This supposedly flagship hydro scheme is now not operating despite the wet summer.

And yet hydro power continues with an economic model that few can make work and, indeed, which poses an environmental menace that few can understand. Alan Butterworth, a former Environment Agency officer on fish issues and hydro power, retired when he became disenchanted with the schemes.

He is now an adviser to the Angling Trust. 'It has been very easy to sell the idea of hydro power to communities, ' he says. 'But the big problem is that while most people can understand biodiversity above ground, the average person doesn't have a clue about what goes on under water.'

ven if every one of the nvironment Agency's 26,000 sites became operational, they would produce less than 1 per cent 13 of Britain's energy needs - a figure which even the Department of E nergy and Climate Change admits is 'modest'. No in-river turbine could compete in the open market. The only reason any new hydro project is built is because of the taxpayer subsidies available to producers of 'renewable energy'. These are so generous that even the Queen's business advisers have been unable to resist: the Crown E state is spending £1.8 million on an Archimedes Screw turbine on the Thames near Windsor Castle.

The Queen's turbine will generate an estimated 1.7 million kWh of electricity a year - which sounds impressive till you realise that this means enough to power just 2,000 hundred-watt lightbulbs. The £1.8 million outlay would make no economic sense were it not for the subsidy, which according to calculations by Christopher Booker means the Crown E state stands to make £333,200 a year, however little electricity it feeds into the grid.

The Queen's hydroelectric plant at Balmoral generates five times as much electricity - enough for the royal estate and a few hundred homes. But those turbines are powered by water gushing down from Lochnagar, a 3,800ft-high mountain. Windsor has no equivalent. All the subsidy in the world can't change this geological fact.

As with wind and solar, so it seems it is with hydro power: a few rich get richer; everyone else gets poorer; property rights - in this case riparian rights - are trampled;

time-honoured liberties are infringed; energy prices rise; and the environment, in the name of being saved, is needlessly damaged.

But don't expect to be reading this any time soon on the British Hydropower Association's website.

This essay is the winner of The Spectator's 2012 Matt Ridley Prize for Environmental Heresy: see spectator. co. uk/ridleyaward for further details.

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All Rights Reserved
 
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