Restoring Old Rods

blankety blank · Mar 14, 2008

I await the series with interest Kevin!

I've got a cane rod, picked up from ebay a couple of years ago, that i would like to restore. I think that it is firmly in your preferred category. No makers name, but looks good quality. 11 footer, built cane throughout, no set, and tehwhippings and rings look original.

Problems include loose whippings, rusty rings and a split ferrule. With these issues sorted, and perhaps a nice coat of varnish, it would be a very pretty and usuable rod (noit that i would want to trot with it all day or anything..)

I have seen sets of rings, whipping material etc for sale, but have never seen replacement ferrules.

I can feel a close season project coming on!

Paul (Brummie) Williams · Mar 14, 2008

Beggar that!..........what close season!!!!!!?????????

Chris Bettis · Mar 14, 2008

Kevin,

What a great idea.

If one could find an Avocet and a MarkIV both by B James in the necessary condition and deal with them in the way you obviously intend to detail you would finish up with two rods that I would use for 90% plus of my fishing, with great pleasure.

ps. The Avocet would need to have a whole cane butt section.

I am 69 years old and started fishing when I was about 9 years old and these rods, to me, were perfection and no fibre glass or carbon fibre rod, although lighter and super efficient have the sheer tactile feel of these two (and many others) or are such a pleasure to use for what they were made. Fishing.

Looking foward to your article no end.

John Howard · Mar 15, 2008

Kevin you refer to rods being refurbished. The rod rings were chrome plated and in fact very soft. It was normal to have to replace them each year due to grooves forming. Even the lining on the butt and tip rings were susceptable to wear. So unless a rod was totataly unused there must be very few that havent been rebuilt at some time???

Kevin Perkins · Mar 15, 2008

John

I totally understand what you are saying, very few rods will have survived without some 'maintenance' over the years. My gripe is about some of these rods which are sold as original but are like the broom that has had four new heads and three newhandles.

The only thing that has survived is the label showing themakers name, and that is scrupulously preserved during any stripping and/or re-varnishing, to prove the rod is what itclaims to be.

No matter how poor those repairs have been the rod is always advertised as a 'Walter's Whizzer' or whatever, and the base price is thefore elevated by what it is, not by the condition.

My contention is that if anglers want to repair or restore cane rods with a view to using them again, then there should be nothing to stop them, especially as I'm on about dabbling with rods whose nominal value is hopefully in the sub £25 bracket

big T · Mar 15, 2008

I wait with bated breath as well, I'm also from the generation that did their own tinkering, it was one of the first things my grandad tought me after I started fishing was how to splice a ring on and how to change the tip ring. The fumes used to interfear with the smell of cider as we used the same shed. Halve the time I don't know to this day what made me high the smell from the fumes or the fumes from the green cider

Adrian Gay · Mar 15, 2008

Great idea for an article I will certainly be following what you have to say and how you get on.

I would be very interested in your comments about locating and purchasing the raw materials for your refurbishment project. In particular rod rings – in the old days one could purchase a card with the rings on – this does not seem to be possible any more. On eBay the prices being asked for rod rings is very high – is there such a small supply of rings available for rod restoration?

Ferrules also appear to be a very rare item – and try to find information on how to remove and replace ferrules – not easy. In fact the amount of information available on how one would go about restoring old / vintage type rods is almost non existent. This is very frustrating for a new comer to the world of rod repair and restoration.

I await eagerly your articles…

Chris Bettis · Mar 16, 2008

Kevin,

Where on earth do you expect to pick up a split cane rod of any type for £25 or less?

I am a great fan of Chris Yates, but since Passion for Angling, it seems that both Split Cane rods and Centre Pin reels have increased in value . Prior to that excellent programme on T.V.and subsequent Video and D.V.D. both could be found at reasonable cost, but not now.

Kevin Perkins · Mar 17, 2008

Chris

The intention was/is to show how to repair/restore old rods (cane or otherwise) in order to bring them backinto a usable condition.

The value of a cane rodis a very subjective matter. If I spend £50 on buying a rod, then say 50 hours restoring it andlay outaround £50 in materials, how much is it worth at the end?

The answer is, it is worth as much as someone wantsto pay, but it almost certainly wont be worth the sum total of theexpenditure put into it.

In order to get things moving on this, I recently bought a small split canespinning rod for the princely sum of 99p! It may well be rubbish, but it will serve to show how to whip rings and/or repair replace corks etc.

It may never get used in anger, but will serve to illustrate the various processes, and won't break the bank if I have to chuck it in the bin at the end of it (or donate to my local pub to hang up on the wall......!)

mike Gibson · Mar 17, 2008

Looking forward to it. I have a couple of old rods, a Chapman 500 10' split cane avon rod and a Martin James, 12' 'roach rod' both bought in the 1960'sthat still get a day out occasionally. I have re-whipped and varnished both over theyears but would love to give them a proper restoration job.

Kevan Farmer · Mar 19, 2008

There are some very good and extremely usable old cane rods out there. I'm not talking about the 'named' stuff because that is normally silly money (though I did pick up a good condition Chapman 550 for about £20). There were some rod makers that crafted some fantastic bits of kit but simply never got to be well known. These are the sort of rods that you can indeed pick up for a £5 still (or, in Kevin's case, 99p nice one). Of course there are also some absolutely apalling examples of, dare I say rod. I have been stung only twice in picking up rubbish but not badly stung. I have a couple of rods that sounded promising but when they arrived were simply rubbish. Or were they? On second glance I can use the raw materials on another rod to bring it back to life.

As for rod rings etc... Hopkins and Holloway offer some nice replacements to the chrome intermediates in stainless. The agate lined rings are the awkard ones to find. If you want an original looking rod then it's highly likely you'll end up paying through the nose /forum/smilies/sad_smiley.gif But, if you don't mind a modern compromise there are some pretty decent subdued lining rings to be found. Again, Hopkins and Holloway are the people. Ferrules are another matter. I'd suggest finding a small engineering jobbing workshop or, somebody who has a lathe and knows how to use it. Norman Agutters used to offer ferrules... at a price http://www.norman-agutters.com or, alternatively there is always R.Chapmans http://www.chapmanblanks.co.uk/index.htm but again there is that price.

Good luck with the project, I'll follow it avidly /forum/smilies/smile_smiley.gif

Kevan

PAG · Mar 19, 2008

I posted this information in the original forum that prompted this one so I apologize for repetition but for those who have not already seen this, Ted Oliver of Olivers of Knebworth fame has now retired but still hassome rod building components he wants to sell. He can be reached on 01438 812330.

He sold the cane rod building business to Peter Johnson who trades as Olivers Rods in Chester and still hand builds split cane rods. He can be reached on 01829 271717 or at www.oliversrods.com

I spoke to Peter at the Knebworth country show last week and he would be interested in any restoration projects, and I assume he must be able to get rings, ferrules etc. as needed.

Kevan Farmer · Mar 20, 2008

That is fantastic information PAG /forum/smilies/smile_smiley.gif I may be phoning Ted myself as I need at least one set of ferrules. Trouble is, as everyone will see from the links I submitted, they are very expensive nowadays. Crikey, I remember being able to walk into my local tackle shop and just picking a set up for a couple of quid....

Peter Jacobs · Mar 20, 2008

Kevan,

I remember paying less than 25% of those prices for a new MkIV.

The fact is though that a lot of the materials are a little pricey, but then the joy you get from using the finished product is second to none.

The 'carboniferous' age rods just don't have the "soul" of grand old split cane.

Kevan Farmer · Mar 20, 2008

Hi Peter. I know what you mean. A cane rod has a 'feel' about it that a carbon rod simply doesn't. Having said that I am happy to use cane, carbon and glass rods. There is also the argument that cane and carbon are very similar because they are, ultimately, both made from carbon... Actually, carbon fibre cloth is made from cotton initially so it is 'sort of' natural /forum/smilies/smile_smiley.gif

Fred Bonney · Mar 20, 2008

Kevan, nice to see you posting again.Hope your health isn't treating youtoo bad .

I picked up a Dawsons of Bromley Sabina, it needs a little bit of loving care and attention. So,this is all very interesting to read.

Kevan Farmer · Mar 20, 2008

Hi Fred /forum/smilies/smile_smiley.gif it has been some time and yes, it was due to ill health /forum/smilies/sad_smiley.gif I think every joint decided to start playing up... typical, I once again wanted to do some piking over the Winter. Yeah right thought my body /forum/smilies/smile_smiley.gif Anyway, it's easing up now and ehy, life goes on whatever it throws at you.

Interesting about the Sabina /forum/smilies/smile_smiley.gif I have one myself and that too is one of my restoration projects. What sort of condition is yours in? Mine's not bad just showing sings of use more than anything. If you need any photo's taking to match your up just say the word. I was actually given mine from a chap on a local Freecycle site. I asked if anybody had any old cane rods and this guy e-mailed me and offered me the Sabina. This was actually about 12 months ago and I simply haven't had time when I've been well enough to get around to giving it some attention.

It would be interesting to hear from anyobdy who knows about the Sabina. My feelings are that it will make nice tench or barbel rod. What do you think Fred?

mark norris (ACA) · Mar 20, 2008

If anyone wants an old cane rod to refurb, and you live in Essex,go and see Albert at the sportsmans gallery at Horndon-on-the-hill.

He has heaps of them,mostly with no name.

If you want rings,ferrules etc. Agutters have a web page with everything you need

Fred Bonney · Mar 20, 2008

I Kevan, it's certainly a sturdy piece of kit. Tench maybe, barbel?(sucks teeth).

I think it's been refurbished a bit, probably a new cork butt. Ferrules look like they been removed and put back, a bit of red & yellow rewhipping, and varnishing.

With the exception of the need to rewhip & replace one rustedeye, it's usable.

I may give it atest withtench, and see how it reacts.Then, who knows?

Just one question,are all three sections the same length on yours?

My tip section is an inch shorter.

Kevan Farmer · Mar 20, 2008

Hmm, I'm pretty sure they are all the same length on mine but I will check. I'll have a look in a short while and get back to you.

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