When are we going to sort line labelling out?

I've had a frustrating few weeks and it's all been caused by respooling with new line. You'd think that this would be a simple task. Walk into the tackle shop, browse through the spools of line on display, select a line with the breaking strain and characteristics you want, buy line and load on to spools.

But it's not like that is it?

Here's what happened. I'd bought some of the ESP XT line in 10lb bs at the end of last season. This performs well and I'm perfectly happy with it as a general line, but looking forward to some winter fishing on the tidal Trent and some new areas of the river that are distinctly snaggy, I decided I needed something a little stronger. Cue visit to tackle shop. My preference for heavy line is Kryston Snyde, but the shop didn't have it. I suppose I could have gone with a heavier bs of the ESP, but I didn't want too much of it as it was only going on a couple of spools. Ah, I saw a 400m spool of a well respected make (I won't name it) 15lb bs, 0.30mm diameter (that should have rung alarm bells) with "ultimate abrasion resistance".

Pick up spool, pay the man and load my reels. The line felt nice and spooled up really well so I gave it a go for my general barbel fishing. It worked well, but last week I had a knot fail. Just one of those things I thought. Yesterday I fished a swim that is hook and hold and is a one bite a day swim. 8 hours into the session I got the bite, hooked the fish and held. Snap. The knot went. Now I've fished the swim for many years, the rod was my usual soft through actioned rod and I've only once before lost a fish due to a knot going. Now the other thing is that the abrasion resistance isn't any better than other lines I've used either.

The upshot is that the line is coming off and being returned to the shop. I'm going to buy another line (it wasn't the shop's fault) and I might well have to buy one of my usual lines by mail order.

So, next time you're in the tackle shop have a look at the lines. Look at 0.30mm lines and just look at the range of breaking strains, claimed knot strength and abrasion resistance. How are we supposed to choose a reliable line that does the job we want?

Beats me! :w

I doubt that all the claims made by line manufactures/sellers are arrived at through exhaustive testing, i dont know how manufacturers of line there are in the world (cant be that many) i would imagine that lots of lines from the same maker are marketed under lots of different names. its time that the brand name sellers of these lines were made to ensure that the claims made for a particular brand of line are true and the facts have been arrived at through proper testing.

---------- Post added at 10:47 ---------- Previous post was at 10:09 ----------

Just googled fishing line manufacturers and to my surprise there are loads of them, lots are in china, do all these manufactures work to the same specs? i doubt it.

Mislabelling of line - A long held irk of mine.

Ultima tried for ages to get uniform tests for knot strength and abrasion resistance, other manufacturers showed no interest, I'll leave you to decide why the others weren't keen about having a level playing field....

One thing is clear cut; if a line product states a diameter and its actual diameter is not the same as stated; it's fraud and therefore a matter for trading standards.

In my honest opinion, if you've got a spool of line that clearly doesn't meet the criteria stated on its label; report your concerns to trading standards.

I think you should name the make of line Sean so as another angler doesnt make the same mistake.

Negative reviews are sometimes better for helping make choices.

Ultima lines are very reliable and pretty much all I use.

I do use sensor in 6lb and 8lb aswell but I think the actual breaking strains for these lines are 8lb and 10lb respectively, mislabelling of the highest order.

I'll not name the make yet as I've returned it to the shop and got a refund. I'll talk to the manager when I get back from holiday (I'm away next week) and ask him to talk to the rep - report back in a couple of weeks.

I know Terry Eustace used to moan about the "abrasion resistant" claim and published the results of his tests. Whilst looking for some replacement line (they actually had some Kryston Snyde in!) I had a quick look through the lines on offer and almost without exception they claimed abrasion resistance and high knot strength.

On the subject of knots I had a long chat with Uncle Dave Chilton of Kryston last week. Dave said that they've found that every line they have tried has a different "best" knot and so they test all their lines and give the best performing knot on the packaging.

I've also talked to my local Barbel Catchers colleagues and asked which lines they use (I got really paranoid about my ability to tie knots!). Almost without exception the lines they use have a diameter of around 0.33mm in the 12lb breaking strain (Woody will now be laughing at me).

So my advice is choose your main line on the basis of diameter using a good "standard" mono as a guide (Maxima or Sensor for exmple) and you won't go fat wrong. One worrying thing is that Berkley and Sufix have rebranded some of their lines with "Carp" and the diameter for stated breaking strain has dropped considerably. In fact Sufix is quoting a diameter of 0.3mm for 15lb breaking strain Sufix Synergy Carp.

I'm going to develop some simple tests, but I'd be interested to hear other peoples' experiences.

I think that the benefit of this thread is extremely limited unless the exact line is named.

Constructive criticism is just as useful (maybe more useful) as constructive praise.

I think line diameter is the best guide. generally find low diameter for breaking strain never performs as reliably. Whats the point in hooking a fish only to loose it? I personally steer clear of Berkley - progressive sounding co-polymer technology terminology (rhubarb), looks great - but very temperamental.

top lines IMO are Daiwa sensor, Drennan float fish, Maxima chameleon, Drennan super specialist (does understate the breaking strain though). Drennan ESP olive in 10lb or 12lb breaking strain is awesome.

X-Line flourocarbon is a brilliant flourocarbon line - but at best part of £30 - I'd expect something special. super for slack line fishing for carping - sinks well and is tough. the only problem is that if you have to pull for a break (snagged up on the bottom) - it can part anywhere - never at the knot.

Trouble with diameters is how accurate/truthful they are. I've seen lines of the same alledged diameter that are visibly quite obviously different. In terms of allround reliability proven [to me] over many years its Pro Gold or Pro Clear for "heavy" or feeder work. I'm a bit fussier about lighter lines for trotting.....Drennan FF is reliable,I had a season or two on Sufix Primo XP which was quite good too and I like Cralusso for light work.

This season I've been playing about with some Sufix Dura Flex. I believe its now discontinued [or been re-named] but its still to be found here & there & its the only so-called low diameter line that I've any faith in. The 0.25mm is rated 9.9lb bs and I've been happily bullying big tench & carp out of thick lily beds without any problems.

But I agree....lets have more uniformity and honesty on the spools....and if in doubt stick with stuff that's been around a bit though preferably not on the tackle shop shelf in full sunlight !

Ultima 18lb bs is only 0.35 (verifiable) and is made here in the UK, the only UK line manufacturer we have left but irrespective these lines consistently perform well and I have never had a problem with knots slipping or breaking replacing all my diawa sensor over two years ago.

OK. I've spent the afternoon playing around with some line I had lying around and had some interesting findings. One of the problems we have with choosing a line is that the only concrete info we are given is a breaking strain and diameter, all the rest being generalisations such as good abrasion resistance and high knot strength. I had a think and decided that a really useful figure would be a similar measure to that used to test climbing ropes where ropes have to undergo a test to simulate a fall by a climber. The measure used is the energy in joules absorbed by the rope before breaking.If the rope doesn't break with the standard weight then the number of drops is recorded. This is a much more useful measure than a static breaking strain as it mimics the actual use of the rope. It would also be a really useful measure for fishing line as it would test for exactly the performance we want if we have to stop a fish running into a snag - the line has to absorb a shock load without breaking.

The rig is simple: a cup hook screwed into a wooden fence post on which is hung a sea fishing link swivel. I then tie two size 8 swivels (one a link swivel) to each end of a length of the line I'm going to test. One swivel is hooked into the sea fishing link swivel and the other is used to attach a 6oz sea lead to the other end of the line. The knots are 4 turn grinner knots, just as I'd use when fishing.

Now comes the fun bit! I measure the length of the line and note it down then lift the lead to the level of the cup hook and drop it. The line (and the knots) has to absorb the energy of the falling lead which is given by:

The weight of the lead in kilograms, times the distance fallen in metres, times 9.81. This gives the energy absorbed in joules.

I also decided that a more reliable measure would be the number of drops the line could take without breaking so I recorded this figure. If a line achieved 10 drops without breaking I increased the length of the test piece (and hence the height of the drop) until the line broke at 10 or less drops.

The three lines I tested were:

ESP Synchro XT in 10lb breaking strain with a quoted diameter of 0.30mm and a measured diameter of 0.31mm. A typical high quality 10lb line which is highly regarded.

Sufix Synergy Carp in 15lb breaking strain with a quoted diameter of 0.30mm and a measured diameter of 0.32mm. This is the line I had the problems with.

Wychwood Solace reel line in 15lb breaking strain with a quoted diameter of 0.33mm and a measured diameter of 0.345mm. A line I would define as a good reasonably priced line which I've used before and found reliable.

I've go no way of accurately measuring the static breaking strain of these lines, but my experience tells me that they will be somewhere close to the quoted figures.

Now for the results:

ESP Synchro XP:

Maximum drop 0.950m, number of drops before breaking 8, energy absorbed per drop 1.57J

Sufix Synchro Carp:

Maximum drop 1.020m, number of drops before breaking 10, energy absorbed per drop 1.68J

Wychwood Solace:

Maximum drop 1.380m, energy absorbed per drop 2.27J. The line didn't break at this drop, but the lead was just hitting the floor so I couldn't test with a longer drop. On the next to last series of drops at 1.220m this line developed a "wind knot" as it rebounded, but it still didn't break.

Two other points to notice are that as the lines approched their limit they began to suffer permanent stretching and noticable distortion. Once this happened I found it relatively easy to break them by pulling between my hands. The line tended to break away from the knot when this happened.

The tests above show the problems I experienced with the Sufix really well. Whilst it has a good static breaking strain (normally measured with a slow pull until it breaks) its energy absorption (ability to withstand shock loads) is little better than the 10lb bs ESP Synchro. It also shows that my practice of leaving my rod set up and not re-making my rig after landing a hard fighting fish contributes to the problem. Once a line has stretched its breaking strain is likely to be reduced and this becomes a vicious cycle with every subsequent fish.

Interesting!

Pretty much with Skippy, Pro-Gold/Clear has been very reliable for most aspects and I have no need to look for change, Drennan FF for trotting with the lighter b/s of Pro-Gold used as and when.
Jerry

Sean Meeghan said:

On the subject of knots I had a long chat with Uncle Dave Chilton of Kryston last week. Dave said that they've found that every line they have tried has a different "best" knot and so they test all their lines and give the best performing knot on the packaging.

Click to expand...

Now that is something I would like to see universally adopted. I had a knot fail catastrophically on me last week which cost me a very good carp. The line I have confidence in but I was on a short line on a rod that's a bit pokier than I normally use and I obviously misjudged it...but there is still no way I should have got broken in open water on 10lb line using a 4 turn grinner....unless that's the wrong knot for that particular line.

Answer:
WE are not going to sort it out!
Neither are the tackle shops who are there to make money first and foremost.
OR the UK tackle trade who simply want to grab the biggest slice of the available market!
As end users we are not demanding enough nor do we complain enough.
If you want to see the very best in tackle checkout the Japanese sites for the most finicky of all end users, demanding the very best in reliability and detail from their tackle.

As anglers we, the end users, are complete mugs if we do not test the line we buy BEFORE we use it in anger.
And if you cannot tie a reliable knot in your choosen line learn how to, (or change the line) but please so not go near a water until you can.
Whats wrong with breaking a couple of dozen knots at home??
Surely it's far better than testing it on a fish??

It is a fact that certain knots ARE better with specific line than others;
The Tuna knot for example is a 100% knot for Flurocarbon (not the jazzed up coated stuff, the 100% fluro line) to attach a swivel or hook.
The Justice knot will join fluro and braid for a 100% connection if tied correctly.

Abrasive resistance can be tested by running a taught length of line over a hard peice of wood, easily proving Fluro is better than any mono and mono better than Spectra.

A few years ago the IGFA tested various popular brands of line on their Instron tester, the results are there if anyones interested?

Look outside our shores for more examples ie: • Index page

The European Fishing Tackle Trade Association has been trying to improve the accuracy of line strengths and thicknesses quoted by manufacturers.

In the past, EFTTA has issued tables comparing line strengths and diameters quoted by manufacturers, and the actual figures obtained by independent tests.

A few line manufacturers have signed up to a charter for improved labelling - see link below.

Effta

I've had instances in the past where line has broken well below the quoted strength, so I now test them when I buy them. I use a spring balance and do four tests to calculate an average actual breaking strain. The tests are not to lab standards but they sort out the good from the bad.

Enough of this EFFTA stable door closing.
Let's look at the basic facts.

Tackle company A wants to sell mono line under their own label.
They go to a line manufacturer who will show them the full range of lines they produce, from the low grade commercial varieties to the highest quality line which will pass the IGFA line tests without fail.
Tackle company A buys the line they want, it's not the line manufacturer that decides its the Tackle Company, therefore IF they want to sell the highest quality line they only have to buy it!!!!

It all boils down to what the Tackle company wants to pay for their line, or to put it crudely how much profit can they make from it.

Tackle Company A then details and designs the lable they put on the line, what is written has nothing to do with the manufacturer.
So Tackle company A makes all sorts of statements on the label (non of which they can support with scientific evidence) and the buyer is left with the result.

Buy low price line from an unknown and unproven source and expect the worst!
Buy a high quality line from a well known source and you have a right to expect something better for your money, though you might not get it.

EFTTA maybe trying to sort out this problem with a 'project' but it a problem of their own making, and NOT the fault of the line manufacturers.

Just take a look at the Tackle companies ''supporting' the EFTTA 'project' and ask yourself how many of those brand names hold IGFA line class records (I could be wrong but I can only count three) then ask yourself "why" ?
Then ask yourself "if I had to land one fish to save my life which line would I choose and how would I choose it"?
Its a fair bet you would research all the records and choose the line that has caught the most fish.

Interestingly most European countries use line diameter as their guide rather than what we used to call 'breaking strain' or 'test' in US speak, perhaps our EU neighbours are more aware of the problems than we are???
Remember line diameter CAN be test by Trading Standards, but B.S. is impossible without an Instron (or similar) line tester.

I have no links to any tackle companies but in the past have worked with the IGFA and provided technical assistance to a leading european line manufacturer.

Q: Would Keora care to post the link to the EFFTA to the line strength/diameter table he refers to so we can see where the faults lie?????

The problem I had has veryblittle to do with mislabelling. I bought a line with a brand that has a good reputation. The problem was that it had a good static breaking strain (probably tested with an Instron or similar) but very poor impact strength. Despite claims of eccellent abrasion resistance it also had poor durability.

My point is that the line labelling gave no information that I could use to mske an informed choice and I'm an experienced angler. Because of the brand and the labelling there will be a lot of people using this line in the wrong circumtances and losing fish.

An experienced tackle manufacturer/wholesaler loads his reels with his own branded line with the intention of breaking an European line class Marlin record from his own boat.
He hooks a fish of the required size and the line breaks for no reason and is repeated twice more the same day!

The guy in question was at the time the EFFTA president!

So Sean, what hope for us plebs?

Probably not a lot Mick! Given that I had a very similar problem to your manufacturer it just goes to show the size of the problem. Much of the problem stems from the mismarketing of low diameter "high tech" lines which always look good in theory but nearly always fail to live up to the promise.

Sean

It only needs one 'notch'!

Line needs impact testing for exactly the same reasons as steel Matt.