How long do they live?

dezza · Sep 21, 2012

Way back in the 60s, a few of us in the Northern Specimen Group decided to investigate the behavior of the most common British freshwater fishes. We spent a lot of time trying to find out if fish slept. We also investigated what the maximum age a particular species of fish might live to.

If I remember right, here is the list.

Barbel: 20 years
Bream: 15 years
Carp: 25 years *
Chub: 14 years
Dace: 6 years
Perch: 7 years
Eels: Unknown
Rudd: 12 years
Roach: 14 years
Tench: 20 years
Pike: 25 years
Brown Trout: 18 years
Rainbow Trout: 4 years

* This was based on the scale reading of Clarissa at the time. We now know that carp can live a whole lot longer.

So what do you think? Mark Wintle has challenged my figure for dace of 6 years.

I think we must also consider predation. Many of the smaller fish these days are subject to predation by pike, zander, perch, cormorants and otters, and therefore do not reach their maximum estimated age.

laguna · Sep 21, 2012

Hi Ron,
May I contribute?

I did some research of my own a while back on lake Windermere perch and posted an interesting snippet on a thread some place and discovered after reading an article that perch could (possibly) live to be 20 years old?

Pathogen-induced rapid evolution in a vertebrate life-history trait.
According to an article I read in New Scientist and cited in Royal Society's biological research journal.

Perch in Lake Windermere used to live to a ripe old age. While the average age of fish caught and released by researchers was around 5 years, a few individuals were as old as 20. Then in 1976, an unidentified disease wiped out 99 per cent of adult fish and continued to preferentially kill older fish for years afterwards. Since then, no fish older than 7 have been caught.

According to Jan Ohlberger of the University of Oslo, Norway, the perch (Perca fluviatilis) evolved very quickly in response. They now become sexually mature at an earlier age, which increases their chances of breeding before they get killed by the disease Pathogen-induced rapid evolution in a vertebrate life-history trait (Proceedings of the Royal Society B, vol 278, p 35).

Anything that kills a significant proportion of a population has the potential to bring about very fast evolution.

Ohlberger points out that the long-running capture-and-release programme at Lake Windermere, which began in 1943 and just happened to coincide with the disease outbreak in perch, is pretty unique. In most cases we know too little about what populations were like before disease outbreaks to be able to tell if and how they have evolved in response.

mark brailsford 2 · Sep 21, 2012

Hi Ron,
I read somewhere years ago that some Scientists believe that Eels could possibly live for 60 years!!!

sam vimes · Sep 21, 2012

Coarse Fish

goonch · Sep 21, 2012

How did you come to those conclusions, Ron?

andreagrispi · Sep 21, 2012

I know of waters in which the bream have lived almost to 25 years. Chub in stillwaters live over 20 years.

An eel caught by John Sidley died on the bank (7lb 14oz) and was aged by Alwin Wheeler - 78 years old.

Tench live over 15 years.

chub_on_the_block · Sep 21, 2012

I have still got a crucian x common carp hybrid in a garden pond that i caught as a 3 inch fish in about 1985. There were two of them, but one died a couple of years ago.

The worlds oldest goldfish in captivity was 43 years old and originally won at a fair.http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/414114.stm

dezza · Sep 21, 2012

goonch said:
How did you come to those conclusions, Ron?

At the time, most of these figures were based on what we read in various books on the species, and scale reading performed by a variety of authorities. Eric Hodson was mainly involved with this, but much of his notes have disappeared.

But we never believed that the figures were final. Of the lists given which I am grateful for; I am astonished at the short life for the roach and the long life for the chub.

Eels we now know can reach over 60 years.

beerweasel · Sep 21, 2012

The Swedes claim to have an Eel aged over 150 years living in a well.
Koi have been known to live for over 100
How old was the last Leaney stocked fish at Redmire ?

dezza · Sep 21, 2012

beerweasel said:
The Swedes claim to have an Eel aged over 150 years living in a well.
Koi have been known to live for over 100
How old was the last Leaney stocked fish at Redmire ?

Redmire used to be stocked with trout by the Surrey Trout Farm - run by Don Leney.

It got so choked up with weed that Leney suggested that some carp were stocked. In 1934, 50 carp imported from the Nederlandsche Heidemaatschappij in Arnhem, Holland were stocked. They were fish about 8 inches long and probably about 1 year old.

In 18 years some of them reached over 40 lbs.

Fred Bonney · Sep 21, 2012

Ron have a look at Barbel Fisher 33. The scale research showed between 18 and 22 years old for barbel depending on the river, so 20 is a good call.

Mr Cholmondeley-Corker (PaSC) · Sep 21, 2012

Ron The Hat Clay said:
Mark Wintle has challenged my figure for dace of 6 years.

Mark supported his statement with a source for his information - you merely make statements as facts Ron with nothing to back them up. Then when you are challenged you simply slip away from the thread and later emerge with a new thread....

dezza · Sep 21, 2012

As a matter of interest, the Leney stocking that produced Clarissa cost £2-17-0, plus 7 bob for the carriage!

---------- Post added at 03:08 ---------- Previous post was at 03:04 ----------

Mr Cholmondeley-Corker (PaSC) said:
Mark supported his statement with a source for his information - you merely make statements as facts Ron with nothing to back them up. Then when you are challenged you simply slip away from the thread and later emerge with a new thread..

Please read this thread from the beginning.

No ways do I make these statements as facts.

peter crabtree · Sep 21, 2012

Ron The Hat Clay;1177350 I think we must also consider predation. Many of the smaller fish these days are subject to predation by pike said:
Weren't the above predators around in the old days then?

Mr Cholmondeley-Corker (PaSC) · Sep 21, 2012

Ron The Hat Clay said:
We also investigated what the maximum age a particular species of fish might live to.

If I remember right, here is the list.

Barbel: 20 years
Bream: 15 years
Carp: 25 years *
Chub: 14 years
Dace: 6 years
Perch: 7 years
Eels: Unknown
Rudd: 12 years
Roach: 14 years
Tench: 20 years
Pike: 25 years
Brown Trout: 18 years
Rainbow Trout: 4 years

OK. So, apart from Clarrisa, how did you come about the figures THAT YOU STATE.

What 'investigation' did you carry out to determine these figures?
Who carried out the the investigation with you?
Over what perod was the investigation carried out?
How many waters did you investigate?

All good stuff to add a great deal of weight and interest to what is after all just a list at this stage.

Mark Wintle · Sep 21, 2012

From the Stour survey 1998
Roach - 1% of 9+ or more
Dace - 0.6% of 7+ or more
Chub - 2.3% of 15+ or more
Perch - none over 6 years

dezza · Sep 21, 2012

Ron The Hat Clay said:
At the time, most of these figures were based on what we read in various books on the species, and scale reading performed by a variety of authorities. Eric Hodson was mainly involved with this, but much of his notes have disappeared.

I am only stating these figures from memory. As I have said, Eric Hodson was the man who did virtually all the work on fish ages and whether they slept or not, and he is not with us.

I never meant these figures to be statements of fact. Purely figures from memory to get others to give an opinion.

barbelboi · Sep 21, 2012

Mark Wintle said:
From the Stour survey 1998
Roach - 1% of 9+ or more
Dace - 0.6% of 7+ or more
Chub - 2.3% of 15+ or more
Perch - none over 6 years

Did they carry out one for grayling? I've always believed 5-7 years in the UK but have heard many conflicting opinions.
Jerry

Peter Jacobs · Sep 21, 2012

barbelboi said:
Did they carry out one for grayling? I've always believed 5-7 years in the UK but have heard many conflicting opinions.
Jerry

I've always had the same notion regarding Grayling, a 6 year old fish is very old indeed for the species.

cg74 · Sep 21, 2012

Ron The Hat Clay said:
Way back in the 60s, a few of us in the Northern Specimen Group decided to investigate the behavior of the most common British freshwater fishes. We spent a lot of time trying to find out if fish slept. We also investigated what the maximum age a particular species of fish might live to.

If I remember right, here is the list.

Barbel: 20 years
Bream: 15 years
Carp: 25 years *
Chub: 14 years
Dace: 6 years
Perch: 7 years
Eels: Unknown
Rudd: 12 years
Roach: 14 years
Tench: 20 years
Pike: 25 years
Brown Trout: 18 years
Rainbow Trout: 4 years

* This was based on the scale reading of Clarissa at the time. We now know that carp can live a whole lot longer.

Well yes but basic maths would've been more conclusive and quicker; Clarissa was stocked in 1934 aged 1yr, 1960 being the start of your time period = 27yr old and counting. Conclusion for this sample fish being; she died in 1971, errrm, aged 38.

So what with the lack of logic applied to carp, it draws into question the reliability of all other results

How long do they live?

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