How do fish feel when out of the water

Hi Guys

Just wondering and not wanting to fuel the haters out there.

The other day the wife walked in on me watching Thinking Tackle episode, (Yes I know the shame of it all) right at the point DF and Co where showing of their latest catch and she asked me a question I did not really know the answer to.

What do fish feel when they are out of water, do they feel that they cannot breath, do their gills actually work out of water, is it really stressful for them.

I know I have always got my catches back very quickly but are we causing them undue stress keeping them out for photos etc. Do they feel like they are going to die because they cannot breath.

Thanks for any input with this delicate issue.

Paul

paul80 said:

Do they feel like they are going to die because they cannot breath.

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Only humans (and research suggests some higher mammals eg.elephants) have any concept of death, and fish certainly do not have feelings in the way in which we understand the concept.

They probably sense danger in the same way that they may when a pike is in the vicinity. Their instinct in both circumstances will be flight.

As for breathing out of water, I'm not sure that would be possible for many species of fish except lungfish, mudskippers et al, but carp for example can survive many hours out of water. In places where carp are eaten they are transported live over long distances without any water... Crucian carp are also able to survive low oxygen levels...

I have considered your question Paul 80. And I usually try to help on any fishing related queries, but in this case I don't know the facts.
In fact, I have to admit, I am a fish out of water on the subject.
Sorry....

I guess we will never know, fish do have the ability to survive for long periods though, I can cite two instances of fish lasting for several hours in very hostile conditions, the first was a goldfish which was overlooked for several hours in the fireplace covered in still warm ash after my mothers fish tank exploded one night, when it was dropped into the bowl with the others it kicked and swam showing no ill effects other than loosing all its fins which had completely dried out. They did grow back but it took about a year.

The other was a bloke fishing at mid day on a beach in Florida, he had caught about a dozen catfish and when he packed up he put them back and they all swam off, despite lying in the sand on a hot beach for hours. I was amazed.

We have to be very careful not to give fish human characteristics (anthropomorphism) and therefore emotions such as fear are meaningless when applied to more basic lifeforms. They certainly react to danger by producing a flight response but this is an evolutionary trait.
Gills do work out of water as lungs work in water (but the muscles in the chest wall can't expel the water so the oxygen runs out and the mammal drowns). Fish extract dissolved oxygen from water by the capillaries in their gills being very close to the surface allowing for diffusion and by having a very large surface area. This means if a fish's gills are kept wet it can survive for quite a long time as the oxygen from the air will dissolve in the water on the wet gills and then pass through the membranes. Carp have been known to survive out of water in a damp sack for a great many hours and fish were often transported in this way in past decades. Carp have been known to bury themselves in the mud when a pool dries out or is drained and may survive for several days.
The flight response however will exert stresses on the fish which in the extreme could be harmful and if repeated too often or for too long wouldn't be good.

Great scientific explanation Alchemist.

peter crabtree said:

Great scientific explanation Alchemist.
Was your final paragraph really necessary though?

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Maybe not. So I edited it out.

paul80 said:

How do fish feel when out of the water

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I don't know HOW fish feel when they are out of water, but I'll have a guess as to what the first thing is they feel when they are out of water - GRAVITY!

Or rather their own weight, which in the water they probably have very little sense of as they will use their swim bladder to adjust their depth/floating capability and probably do this with none or very little thought, much as we do when walking/balancing. I reckon the reason they fight on the mat is because they simply aren't used to being laid on their side and feeling the weight of their own flesh pressing down on their underside.

Just my thoughts, but then I'm no expert marine biologist either.

PS Are fish really wild? I don't know, but I reckon they're pretty livid when they're first pulled out.

Generally wet, some slimy - it depends on the species and where you feel them
Jerry

Jeff Woodhouse said:

I don't know HOW fish feel when they are out of water, but I'll have a guess as to what the first thing is they feel when they are out of water - GRAVITY!

Or rather their own weight, which in the water they probably have very little sense of as they will use their swim bladder to adjust their depth/floating capability and probably do this with none or very little thought, much as we do when walking/balancing. I reckon the reason they fight on the mat is because they simply aren't used to being laid on their side and feeling the weight of their own flesh pressing down on their underside.

Just my thoughts, but then I'm no expert marine biologist either.

PS Are fish really wild? I don't know, but I reckon they're pretty livid when they're first pulled out.

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have to agree with this , plus I believe the swim bladder can cause an adverse reaction when the fish is pulled from any great depth.

Its not so much an angling question as a philosophical one , in to feel one imagines the animal must be sentient.

There was a great documentary about ants a while ago , my old boss always said ants were hard wired , they demonstrated ants reacting to chemical trails , that they themselves left , in order to locate food and govern other behaviour in a very very simple way i.e. the worker ant only has a repetoire of about 10 different reactions.

They fastened an ant to a very lightweight wire and put him / it on a very small rollerball. They isolated the chemicals that the ant used to choose a route to food and were able to make the ant turn left and right at will.

So it looks like the ant finds food leaves a trail back to the nest and others follow , but the ant is an unthinking automaton , it leaves a trail everywhere it goes , it finds food , returns home following the trail but also leaving the same trail , other ants follow the trail also leaving the same chemical trail and the whole thing reinforces itself.

you could probably make a small robot that was more sophisticated as an ant and probably that could reproduce ant like behaviour i.e. autonomous robots cooperating without knowing why , but they wouldn't have that magic spark they wouldn't be alive.

Fish are pretty much along the same lines I think but with a slightly wider range of reactions to stimuli , still with that magic divine spark in them that cannot be reproduced in any laboratory anywhere.

When the whale falls to the Earth in the Hitch-hikers Guide to the Galaxy its last thoughts were "Oh No not again" if i remember correctly.

I suspect that some fish might feel this way too.

EDIT - i am wrong it was the bowl of Petunias that thought this. The Whale had a lot more thinking going on..

[ame]http://youtu.be/tpiwRN6OA2A[/ame]

Thanks for all the input guys

That should give me enough ammo to shut SWMBO up next time she starts shouting put it back at the TV the next time DF or MH are taking an age to photograph their latest whopper that they caught within 5 minutes of their first cast of the day. ?

Paul

i know the thinking tackle guys catch big fish, but seriously, if i used as much bait as they do and still waited days to catch something, i'd not want to put it on TV! infact, if i use 50 boilies to catch a dozen carp i feel like i've wasted some.

but as for fish out of water, they can actually absorb too much oxygen once they are on the bank, which is probably why they calm down when you stick your thumb in their mouths, restricting the air they take in, wet sacks i imagine would work the same way, (try putting a wet flannel over your mouth and breathe in). but yes, generally fish are a lot tougher than most ppl think, i can remember catching a cod from portishead years ago, smacked it on the head, and wrapped it in a carrier bag, got home hours later, put it in the fridge, took it out about 12 hours later to clean and cook it, and it was still alive.

Another issue with fish is that, not having eyelids, seem to thrash around more on the mat (especially carp) in bright sunshine. A damp weigh sling, or similar, over the eyes tends to calm them whilst unhooking.

I know of quite a few that don't believe in the 'thumb in the mouth' bit - personally I find it works more times than not whatever the reason.
Jerry