Pellets under Fire

MarkTheSpark · Mar 31, 2008

It seems to me, Shaun, that individually, no baits are harmful per se but that over-using any bait runs the risk of harming the environment. Whether they were right or wrong, the Danes banned groundbait in many waters because of the sheer volume they saw being chucked in at matches.

Pellets are not much more than hard, HNV 'boilies' (or perhaps 'bakies'). They are, as you have said, fish food (and incidentally, halibut pellets aren't made from halibut but designed to feed farmed halibut).

The problem I have with ALL the fishmeal pellets is that, to produce them, the sandeel and capelin shoals around the world are being devastated; anglers' bait may be only a tiny fraction of the total, but by using them, you are supporting an industry which is wrecking the marine enviroment to the extent that not only predatory fish like turbot, bass and others are suffering, but entire seabird colonies are quite literally starving to death.

It's about time the fish feed producers (and angling bait suppliers) produced products which aren't the equivalent of feeding rendered cattle to cattle. Something sustainable.

Wolfman Woody · Mar 31, 2008

Good article Shaun.

I thought the operative word in it was "sensible". Excellent.

DZ · Mar 31, 2008

Too right Mark though I'd have thought anglers are a rather small percentage of those using 'Halibut' style pellets. I think these are AKA cattle cake in certain farming trades! Whether cattle should be eating fishmeal is another matter. Mind you- these fishmeal pellets seem to be really bad for fish in high levels- obese is the word.

Gareth Watkins · Mar 31, 2008

Hi there

As Mark states the overuse of any bait can be harmful to the fish. In a normal environment individual anglers wouldhave a hard jobto harm fish by introducing a certain bait. There is always an abundance of natural food that gives the fish a balanced diet.
However, we have seen over the years that it is very easy to condition carp to take a certain bait in exclusion to other food sources. The pellet syndrome is just one example of this. When you get a bait "going" on a high pressured water, everyone jumps on the bandwagon and starts piling it in. More bait equals more fish..right!!!, Here the problems start for the carp.

But as I say this response from carp can be prevoked by any number of 'baits'. I remember the response to carp at Llandrindod Wells in the 80's when if you didn't fish peanuts, you didn't catch. The carp were totally obsessed with them and we baited heavily (by those day's standards), and caught a stack of fish. Little did we realise as kids the detrimental effect such tactics had on the fish, until after a few seasons the weights were down and the carp visibly thin.

Cheers
Gareth

Pat Gillett · Mar 31, 2008

MARK wrote 'It's about time the fish feed producers (and angling bait suppliers) produced products which aren't the equivalent of feeding rendered cattle to cattle. Something sustainable.'

This has been done where bait companies pellets have been made from the same ingredients as the biolie base mixes (bird seed mixes etc). I believe that this is the case with the Quest baits Rahja spice pellets, which are bird seed base.

Gareth i know what you mean about the over use of peanuts. It happened on Pool Hall, a local day ticket water. The only problem was that because there were a lot of inexperienced guys fishing this water at the time, they were using them incorrectly prepared which inevitably resulted in a number of carp deaths.

Cheers, Pat

The bad one · Mar 31, 2008

Mark you are quite right about the moral and ethical dilemma of fishmeal pellets, but whilst they’re available, irrespective of where they come and the impact on the environment, anglers will use if they catch fish.

A sad fact but that’s the reality of it.

The real way to stop their usage is through international agreement on “sustainable” exploitation of the world oceans for its fish stocks. Such an agreement would probably kill off over night the use of fishmeal for the fish feed industry. Therefore they wouldn’t be available to anglers. And/or the cost would be so prohibitive they couldn’t afford them.

Such an agreement would probably force the feed makers to look at more sustainable products to make the pellets out of.

There is within some sectors of the farmed fish industry a move towards this way of thinking, but on a global scale its small because those implementing it are doing for moral e and ethical reason. What it needs and can only get from the kick in the A*** from international agreements.

Peter Jacobs · Mar 31, 2008

If Woody is right, then think of an anagram of:

"The thick pal"

As to the topic: I don't use pellet at all thinking that it makes angling somewhat of an 'easier game' than with the more traditional baits. So when that 'magic' disappears then its really not worth the effort.

Personal feeling, so each to their own I suppose.

The bad one · Apr 1, 2008

Mr Jacobs

Woody, who ever he is, is not right, Phil's my brother. Whilst we sharethe same broad outlook on the environmentand the treats to it, we are two different individuals. Unless and until some one has a go at him unreasonably, as you appear to have done above.

So for your future reference I am Ian his brother.

P.s I'm staying with him for the next6 weeks or sowhilst refurbishment to my gaff are completed and I'm also using his computer. I happen to come across this site by accident in our kids Internet History and thought I'd have sneaky look at why so many past hits were coming up on this site.

You'll also note I don't comment on angling techniques/methods as I no longer fish and haven't done for over twenty years. I'm an out and out ornithologist these days, which makes for some lively debates here in the dwelling on the Heath.

Fred Bonney · Apr 1, 2008

I just wonder if somebody has been given inside information on users????

GrahamM · Apr 1, 2008

Can you explain what you mean Fred please.

John McLaren · Apr 1, 2008

I've lost the plot on this one - is it a case of someone posting on the wrong thread?

Shame because it is an important , and interesting subject.

I would want to avoid use of baits that harm the environmentin any way and one thing I have never done is heave in huge quantities of bait but I do use pellets, I don't see "that it makes angling somewhat of an 'easier game' than with the more traditional baits." You still have to fish appropriately and there are times on the Ribble, for example, when pellets will not work and results come from maggot,caster or bread.

Fred Bonney · Apr 1, 2008

Graham,. it seems to me that Jeff has picked up from somewhere, that Phil was posting as The bad one.

It nowappears that it'sPhil's brother Ian from the same computer!

In my view, there has been nothing on here, until Ian's posting, to acknowledge that!

So,how did he know?

Tony Rocca · Apr 1, 2008

Are you accusing someone of a bit of insider trading Fred? passing on privilaged info.

My lord, no Editor worth his salt would do that, how dare you.

On the other hand.....

Mr Cholmondeley-Corker (PaSC) · Apr 1, 2008

It's quite odd that The Bad One (Ian) claims he doesn't fish, yet his profile says that he match fishes on commercials once a quarter. Hmmm /forum/smilies/sarcastic_smiley.gif

The bad one · Apr 1, 2008

To clarify, Jeff?I assume that Woody? Picked up on a post I posted after pointing it out to our Kid and on his, behalf with his consent, about Council's corrupt practices in obtaining money from the Heritage Lottery Fund. http://www.fishingmagic.com/forum/forummessages/mps/dt/4/UTN/32598/V/9/SP/And here http://www.nemadvertiser.co.uk/news/s/1040681_brookdale_park_butcheredPhil tells me he left the site some while ago and won’t post on it. But I know he hold very strong opinions on the way Councils are using, corruptly, HLF money. So I pointed the thread out to him, we discussed the matter and he consented to me posting on his behalf as he felt it was important that anglers should know what’s going on. It would appear that Jeff, Woody, Marlow Meldrew got the wrong impression that it was our kid who made the post. It wasn’t it was me Ian. The words are my words based on the conversation we had. I perhaps should have signed it “for and on behalf of the Chair of BUG,” but I didn’t….lesion learned, I’ll live with it! God are we really that pedantic on this site? I though it was a bit of fun, sometimes with a little seriousness as this thread was meant to be I think from Mark’s post. Man, you really don’t get this sort of microscopic inquisitorial scrutiny and bickering on the birders forums!

It strikes me that you should self examine this, as it might go someway to explain why Birders have one body to represent them and angling has many from what I can see.Matt Crocker I did match fish when I did fish,I don't now as I've explained.

Fred Bonney · Apr 1, 2008

I raised the point Ian, because I'mgenerally against people useing aliases on website forum.

I have accepted that this site allows it,but it appeared to me that,someones anonymity, was being broken.

Hence my comment. No more no less.

Fred Bonney · Apr 1, 2008

Oh yes.

RSPB and BTO, to name but two ???

Give my regards to Phil, I miss our little ...er chats, we were just beginning to agree on things/forum/smilies/wink_smiley.gif

The bad one · Apr 1, 2008

Fred you quite right RSPB and BTO but they sing from the same hymnssheet and work as one unit. Other bird groups (generally local) are all members of the RSPB to my knowledge.

The BTO do the scientific studies on migrations, diseases and such things. The RSPB is for people who just like birds for what they are and would like to know a little more about them without the heavy stuff.

You and Phil were agreeing on things? Man,i've known him for50 + years that I can remember and we rarely agree on anything other than the environment in a general sense. But irrespective of of that, get in bind and he always come through for you.

Being the younger sibling, he'shad to get me out of many a scrap when we were kids /forum/smilies/big_smile_smiley.gif

Fred Bonney · Apr 1, 2008

Apathy rules in angling, that's it's main problem./forum/smilies/sad_smiley.gif

Nigel Connor(ACA ,SAA) · Apr 1, 2008

Ian, tell your kid to act his age and get himself back on here.We're all missing him!

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