live bait

Adam Roberts · Apr 8, 2008

i am no to this but i hear of a fair few people caching lve bait and then transfering them to a nother water,or country for that matter.

are thease people thick or just stupid?

people doing this just have a blatent disregard for the potential ruining there fishing end the fishing of every one else on that venu or ireland it is a blight on the sport and a blow for a thecnic that allready suffers withe the po brigade.

with out brakes of khv becoming more common it is just no on. in the news this weeek cemex are killing all the carp in burghfield mach lake becouse of a out breake of khv

if the iligal transpotation of livebait continues it will not be long befor every were that allows it or even the place that dont and people do any way have mass fish kills and there will be no need for bait in any shape or form.

it is somethig that need to be adressed properly and the irrisposable few need sorting befor they cock it up for everyone.

honslow · Apr 9, 2008

Couldn't agree more Adam. We've seen some terrible damage to fisheries over the years as a result of misguided or illegal stockings and the illegal movement of livebaits. Livebaiting in Scotland was banned recently as a direct consequence of the introduction of non-natives into delicate, vulerable ecosystems.

I was at Burghfield yesterday and had to watch Cefas inspectors taking a hacksaw to the heads of carp they'd put to sleep with massive doses of anaesthetic. Mick Barnes, fishery manager of Cemex Angling, had taken the commendable decision to have all the KHV-infercted carp killed in order to ensure that the disease didn't spread to the other lakes on the complex, which include invaluable carpsuch asthe Burghfield Common. Cefas were taking advantage of the unique opportunity this provided them withto take fresh blood, brain, gill and kidney samples from KHV-infected fish in order to help develop faster, more reliable tests for the disease. The work that Cefas and ECHO have instigated has been ground-breaking and may prove the difference in the longterm battle ofprotecting angling in the UK from what is possibly one of the greatest threats it has ever faced....

It seems extremely unlikely that KHV was introduced to the Match Lake by a legal stocking of carp. So someone, somewhere along the line moved a fish they shouldn't have.

It's rife. It's stupid. And it's unbelievably selfish. The more people who recognise the threat these activities pose, and shop the culprits as a result, the better. Absolutely zero tolerance is required. But will we everachieve that mindset across the sport?

Ray Roberts · Apr 9, 2008

<blockquote class=quoteheader>Adam Roberts wrote (see)</blockquote><blockquote class=quote>

are thease people thick or just stupid?</blockquote>Equal measures of both I think. The actions of a few could put the sport of many at risk and cause even more clubs to outlaw live-baiting. I personally prefer as few rules as possible and whether to use live bait should be left as far as it can be up to the individuals preference or conscience.

Adam Roberts · Apr 9, 2008

It is not just the iligal transpotation of fish that neds addressing all thou it is propbely the number one culprit in the fight against diseese, we as anglers cud all do are bit, wel the one who dont cud the ones that do can not do more other than educate the rest as to making sure all nets,matts,sling sack,etc are dryed out properly in the sun before they are tacken to a diffrent venue and were net dips are avadable they must be used.

little thing like this cud make a diffrance to the future welfaire of the fish we pursue and the sport its self.

Dave Smith · Apr 9, 2008

here we go again....

who's to say the disease din't come from a net that hadn't been dipped etc.

or some other fish movement. getting really pissed off with the "it must be live baiters" comments. without proof.

Adam Roberts · Apr 9, 2008

obvously you can not read!

honslow · Apr 9, 2008

In all fairness Dave, who other than a predator angler would introduce smallnon-native species to Scottish lochs? Disease can certainly be spreadas a result of illegal specimen fish movements or just misguided legal stockings from dubious sources, but it's common knowldge that some unscrupulous idiots continue to make a habit of regularly taking illegal baits to the bank. And these people know just how big an impact what they're doing could potentially have, they just don't give a damn. What's the potential fora massive fish kill compared with the importance of themcatching another thirty????

The other big problem is the dumping of ornamentals. I honestly believe that some of the most serious illegal introductions are by well-meaning non-anglers who just want to let their unwanted pet fish live on in a 'natural' environment. The manager of one of the biggest commercials in the country recently came across a punter trying to release a load of goldfish into one of his lakes!!!! Turns out such people have no idea what they're doing constitutes a massive disease risk.

Fred Bonney · Apr 9, 2008

I can understand why too!

It's like everything in this angling world of ours.

Lack of education.

Adam Roberts · Apr 9, 2008

as anglers we dont want to see live baiting banned as it is a viable method of chching predotry fish what need to be done thou is for the i dont care about any one elses fishing brigade to be stoped so they dont ruin it for every one.

live baiting shud stay as long as the bait is cought from the same venue on the same session as they are to be used then there is very littke risk os spreading disseas. and worse than that itrudusing non-native species in to lakes,lochs and rivers and changing the wole ballance of the place or country for that matter

Dave Smith · Apr 9, 2008

I can't read and you can't spell.../forum/smilies/tongue_out_smiley.gif

"with out brakes of khv becoming more common it is just no on. in the news this weeek cemex are killing all the carp in burghfield mach lake becouse of a out breake of khv"

it's this bit that threw me, I agree with the rest of it. but there are far more likely reasons for a KHV outbreak that Predator Anglers. not too far away from me is a lake that used to run as a dayticket water. when a local football team purchased the land the lake closed. some of the carp in the lake where moved. by carp anglers to other local waters so that they could continue to catch them. I know of at least two other waters where this has happend. this goes on from time to time, yet if theres a problem with fish movemnet it's ALWAYS predator anglers that get the blame.

I know that some predator anglers are bloody idiots, but no more so than carpers or any other branch of the sport. yet it's the predator lads that get the shitty end of the stick.

The Ruffe in Bala, are blamed on the Predator lads, but who the hell would use Ruffe as a livebait?

stephen cotton · Apr 9, 2008

I have to agree with Dave. You're not going to convince me that the spread of course fish to the Lakes and Scotland is all down to selfish predator anglers. Doesmother nature have a part to play?

Adam Roberts · Apr 9, 2008

i no i carnt spell/forum/smilies/smile_smiley.gif

i am not just ranting and raving on about preditor anglers i have said about the iligall fish movment as a hole, i my self no of carp anglers one of wich is veru famous from the east linconshire area that have moved fish from lake and rivers for that matter and they have totaly ballsed one lake up every origanal carp died.

a lake near the river humber that had one of the first major out brakes of khv was used to hold illigalinported carp from europe befor they were sold to the people who run lakes for the who were obvously in it for finachal reasons and were not at all bothed about fish welfare.

the illigal movment of fish full stop weather it be live bait or any thing else must be stoped to protect the uks fish stocks as awhole and to protect the sport for future genarations, those of you that think i am just going on about preditor anglers withe live bait are wrong as i do use live bait my self but every live bait i have eber used as been cought in the same session from the same water the way it shud be done.

as withe the course fish in scotland i think the majorty of it is down to preditor anglers who are not bothed about any one else but them selfs

Keith M · Apr 9, 2008

<blockquote class=quoteheader>Adam Roberts wrote (see)</blockquote><blockquote class=quote>

i am no to this but i hear of a fair few people caching lve bait and then transfering them to a nother water,or country for that matter.

are thease people thick or just stupid?</blockquote>

Yes! and totally brainless. I see nothing wrong with livebaiting if done responsibly however thoseidiots that illegally move theirlivebait from one water to another (without consent papers) are not responsible anglers as far as Im concerned.

I now that disease can spread in many other ways but thats no reason to selectively ignore this law. Most anglers that livebait alreadyknow this and don't do it.

JIMMY---PAAS · Apr 9, 2008

<blockquote class=quoteheader>Adam Roberts wrote (see)</blockquote><blockquote class=quote>

i my self no of carp anglers one of wich is veru famous from the east linconshire area that have moved fish from lake and rivers for that matter and they have totaly ballsed one lake up every origanal carp died.</blockquote>Adam; two questions for you.
First, Have you reported this?. <blockquote class=quoteheader>Adam Roberts wrote (see)</blockquote><blockquote class=quote>

as withe the course fish in scotland i think the majorty of it is down to preditor anglers who are not bothed about any one else but them selfs </blockquote>Second. You think, well mate you thing wrong. Alan; Go on factsnot what you think.

JIMMY---PAAS · Apr 9, 2008

Well said Keith.

Adam Roberts · Apr 9, 2008

i have not reported the carp moment has it happend years ago withr the famus angler,

i have however been on a lake at i time when carp were being moved illigal and i rang the EA who are the people who are suppost to deal withe tease sort of things and gave them deatils of the vans beeing used werw the fish wrer going and the names of the main people who were in volved and the responce was"we have got no one avadable in the area at the pressent we will make anote and get on to it asap", did any thing ever happen? as with all goverment funded organisations no.

Adam Roberts · Apr 9, 2008

as for fact about live bait spreding disese in scotland,

the decision made by the scotish executive to ban the use of live baits was not that it is a crule method, but for the fear of spreding diseesie thru iliigal transported fish and damaging the course fish stock they have got, and the introduction of ruffe wich is not a native specice may have had some thing to do with it

Keith M · Apr 9, 2008

As normally happens; the vast majority of responsible anglers have it spoilt by the small minority of brain-dead anglers, but 99% of the anglers using livebaits that I know would not dream of moving livebaits from one water to another water, and the other 1% are usuallyraw novicesthatare shown the error of their waysstraight away.

It sounds like scotland has more than its fair share of raw novices and brain-dead anglers using livebait obtained from other waters. perhaps they think that they can get away with it on the larger lochs?.

stephen cotton · Apr 10, 2008

Or maybe course fish have always been there to some extent and global warming & eutrification is making the lochs in Scotland more suitable for course fish and less so for the game fish?? Wouldn't be politically correct to blame aquaculture for the decline in game stocks would it.

Wolfman Woody · Apr 10, 2008

Just seen this -

Adam wrote "it is somethig that need to be adressed properly"

It is in England at least in that it is illegal to transfer fish from one water to another, that includes live baits! I forget the maximum fine if you are caught doing it, probably £2500 or maybe much higher.

.

Also Dave Smith wrote "who's to say the disease din't come from a net that hadn't been dipped etc."

The chances of transferring a disease by way of a net are - well, try writing a google ( a one followed by 100 zeros ) to 1. In fact there are fewer stars in the Milky Way than are chances of transferring a disease by a net, which renders the dipping of nets utterly useless. And that is ratified by the EA fisheries people.

It's about time we stopped this bullshine about transferring diseases by nets, Diseases are caused by A) poor water quality or B) the transferring of already diseased fish - FULL STOP

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