Do carbon rods "soften"?

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binka

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Does anyone know if carbon rods actually soften with use?

It's probably just me getting used to them but the two 2 3/4lb tc's I used at the weekend for some pike fishing just seemed less poker like than when I first brought them?
 

mark brailsford 2

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I can't see that a Carbon rod would soften up with use, after all one of the reasons they use carbon is the fact that it is a very resilient material and very stable.
 

Windy

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I'm not a carbon engineer or anything like, but I am a car enthusiast and the subject of carbon fibre does come up in the context of discussion about its longevity and stiffness etc.

Also on aircraft engineering forums with regard to things like the Carbon wings on the Airbus.

Summarising a loooot of contrary postings my understanding of it (which may well be completely misinformed and wrong) is that what we call carbon fibre is really two things, the Carbon fibres themselves and the substrate in which they are embedded, ie. cured resin of some type. The Carbon fibres give the stiffness, the resin holds them in place in relation to each other and "holds" the form in which they are shaped.

Two issues arise amongst those sceptical about the longevity and safety of Carbon fibre: a) whether the carbon fibres themselves snap invisibly and unawares within the the structure, one by one, until they no longer give the same strength to it; b) whether the resin / substrate itself equally gives up the ghost after a while.

Followed by c) which is the big unknown, is carbon fibre liable to snap and break unexpectedly and without warning after a certain period of stress ?

Alarmists say yes, supporters and Airbus engineers say no. By calling them the Alarmists I do not mean to denigrate their sincerely held views. I know an aero engineer who is absolutely convinced that neither he nor any member of his family will ever ever ever board a plane with Carbon fibre wing roots and wings. On the other hand there are the many very highly stressed military aircraft and satellite applications etc that have survived and continue to survive incredibly high stresses without falling out of the sky left right and centre.

Who is right I have no idea. But coming back to the OP's question, yes, it is possible that years of backward and forward bending of a carbon rod has caused a percentage of micro tiny fibres inside its structure to crack, thereby diminishing its resistance to bending and therefore test curve and "feel". It is equally possible that this is *******s....

That's all without getting into the further development of composite materials, which has moved on from "pure" carbon, to combine carbon fibres with kevlar fibres and other closely guarded industrial secret fibres (such as carrots) to comprise a mixed composite with all the best of each. Interesting field, materials, changing our world more than we realise I think.
 

bullet

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I think there may be some truth in this.

I have a 7.5 ft fly rod that i've really used and abused fishing small streams for the last 5 years. It must have done hundreds of hours of casting and catching and pulling out of vegetation.

I'm sure it's a bit softer than when it was new.
 

sam vimes

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Plenty of the carp boys, that fling big lumps of lead and PVA bags of bait to the horizon, certainly think so. I suspect that due to having far too many rods to choose from, I'll never use any rod to notice a significant change.

Perhaps it could be worth addressing the same question to Dr Harrison?
 
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binka

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I'm not a carbon engineer or anything like, but I am a car enthusiast and the subject of carbon fibre does come up in the context of discussion about its longevity and stiffness etc.

Also on aircraft engineering forums with regard to things like the Carbon wings on the Airbus.

Summarising a loooot of contrary postings my understanding of it (which may well be completely misinformed and wrong) is that what we call carbon fibre is really two things, the Carbon fibres themselves and the substrate in which they are embedded, ie. cured resin of some type. The Carbon fibres give the stiffness, the resin holds them in place in relation to each other and "holds" the form in which they are shaped.

Two issues arise amongst those sceptical about the longevity and safety of Carbon fibre: a) whether the carbon fibres themselves snap invisibly and unawares within the the structure, one by one, until they no longer give the same strength to it; b) whether the resin / substrate itself equally gives up the ghost after a while.

Followed by c) which is the big unknown, is carbon fibre liable to snap and break unexpectedly and without warning after a certain period of stress ?

Alarmists say yes, supporters and Airbus engineers say no. By calling them the Alarmists I do not mean to denigrate their sincerely held views. I know an aero engineer who is absolutely convinced that neither he nor any member of his family will ever ever ever board a plane with Carbon fibre wing roots and wings. On the other hand there are the many very highly stressed military aircraft and satellite applications etc that have survived and continue to survive incredibly high stresses without falling out of the sky left right and centre.

Who is right I have no idea. But coming back to the OP's question, yes, it is possible that years of backward and forward bending of a carbon rod has caused a percentage of micro tiny fibres inside its structure to crack, thereby diminishing its resistance to bending and therefore test curve and "feel". It is equally possible that this is *******s....

That's all without getting into the further development of composite materials, which has moved on from "pure" carbon, to combine carbon fibres with kevlar fibres and other closely guarded industrial secret fibres (such as carrots) to comprise a mixed composite with all the best of each. Interesting field, materials, changing our world more than we realise I think.

Blimey... what a reply, my heads hurting after reading that :)

Thanks fellas, interesting to know that there is an element of doubt over it.
 

Windy

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Blimey... what a reply, my heads hurting after reading that :)

And I was summarising :eek:

Why do you think I've got the nickname Windy ?.

It isn't down to my ability to be a weather jinx on any fish in :wh.

Or at least it wasn't :mad:
 

bennygesserit

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And I was summarising :eek:

Why do you think I've got the nickname Windy ?.

It isn't down to my ability to be a weather jinx on any fish in :wh.

Or at least it wasn't :mad:

Carrots really ? Please explain why ?
 

Windy

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In passing, I belive that a lot of the problems with earlier long fibre carbon fibre sheets etc has been resolved by using shorter and finer length fibres in what is known as "the chop". The shorter a fibre is the less it gets bent, and the stronger and less likely it is to snap under any particular lateral bending force.
 

Sean Meeghan

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Actually Windy that's not true. For any given point in a composite beam any fibre, long or short will suffer the same degree of bending. I suspect that the reason for using short fibres is that they give a higher fibre density and a more consistent strength in all directions.

I know of no research that indicates that carbon fibres fatigue, but I could well be convinced that some of the resins used to hold the fibres together could fatigue. Rather than this being due to a decrease in the already low tensile strength this is likely to be due to micro cracking.
 

Windy

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As I said, I am not citing any knowledge of my own, merely repeating what I have read elsewhere, which may well be borrocks.....

More than happy to learn from those who know better :thumbs:
 

geoffmaynard

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They are making rods using carrots for the fibre material Benny. No different to having your car door handles made of soya bean - which Ford were doing 40 years ago!
 

bennygesserit

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They are making rods using carrots for the fibre material Benny. No different to having your car door handles made of soya bean - which Ford were doing 40 years ago!

Well I must admit both those statements surprise me
 

geoffmaynard

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I suspect the true answer is yes and no. Old carbon fibre rods are very different to todays rods. I would suspect that the older rods soften with time but that might not happen with modern rods. My 1980's 2 1/4lb carp rods seem as soft as my 3 year old 1.75lb barbel rods.
 

sam vimes

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I suspect the true answer is yes and no. Old carbon fibre rods are very different to todays rods. I would suspect that the older rods soften with time but that might not happen with modern rods. My 1980's 2 1/4lb carp rods seem as soft as my 3 year old 1.75lb barbel rods.

I might say the same (substitute 80s for 90s though). However, that would have to be tempered with the thought that 80/90s carp rods were quite different animals to start with. The action of a carp rod then was drastically different to that of many modern carp and barbel rods of the same an lighter TCs. I have a virtually unused 2.5lb early 90s vintage carp rod that I wouldn't pit against most modern barbel rods of 1.75-2lb. They make for lovely small water carp rods, unlike the vast majority of the modern carp rod casting tools.
 
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