Heavier than mainline hooklinks?

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binka

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I've heard of people using hooklinks that are heavier than their mono mainline... is this in order to be able to use something with better properties at the business end such as flourocarbon with the heavier breaking strain compensating for the short length and lack of overall stretch, so as not to create a weak link?
 

sam vimes

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Pretty much. I understand that it relies on the supposition that standard mono usually breaks well above its stated breaking strain when hi-tech mono and fluro usually breaks well below its stated breaking strain. It's not something I'm particularly comfortable with.
 

barbelboi

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I believe we had a similar thread x months ago - Ideally all manufacturers will be honest with the stated b/s knot strength and diameter, I won't hold my breath though.
Jerry
 

agamemnon

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i would say nearly every carp, pike and cat angler uses a hook link much stronger than their main line. not really sure why carp anglers do so but for predator fishing you def need a good strong hook link with anto abrasion qualities that 12-15lbs mono just isnt up to
 

sam vimes

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i would say nearly every carp, pike and cat angler uses a hook link much stronger than their main line. not really sure why carp anglers do so but for predator fishing you def need a good strong hook link with anto abrasion qualities that 12-15lbs mono just isnt up to

Perfectly true. However, I must make it clear that I had match style fishing in mind with my previous answer.
 

Sean Meeghan

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It's all about getting a hook length with the properties that you want. With carp rigs it's often about getting the required stiffness so high breaking strains are used. Anglers looking for a nice limp, flexible hook length might use a 15lb or heavier braid to construct a combi link for example.

I use braid hook lengths for nearly all my barbel fishing and although I roughly match breaking strains with my main line I know that the main line will nearly always go first as most modern braids have excellent knot strength and a slightly understated breaking strain. I've settled on Drennan Sinkbraid in 10lb and 12lb for my hooklength material, but if I found a better braid in a higher breaking strain then I'd happily use it.

It makes me smile when I hear advocates of long hook lengths describing a 6ft braid hook length. This is financial and safety madness. In these cases I use a short length of braid at the business end attached to my main line with a ledger stop set to give me the length I require. If the main line goes before the braid then I'll only leave a short length of braid and a small rig ring attached to the fish.
 

barbelboi

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I also use Drennan Sinkbraid for most of my barbel fishing Sean, and wouldn't go to 6' lengths. However I find 3'-4' lengths work very well and IMO put more fish on the bank - possibly because it gives a wary fish (the one you wouldn't know about otherwise) a chance to mouth the bait first without feeling any resistance?
Jerry
 

bennygesserit

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as an inexperienced and casual angler I will stick with a lower BS hooklength than mainline as I think that is safer for anglers like me.
 

Andy M

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But surely it must be the knot strength that finally decides which is the "heavier". Wrong or bad knot and a higher nominal BS could be the weaker.
 

sam vimes

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But surely it must be the knot strength that finally decides which is the "heavier". Wrong or bad knot and a higher nominal BS could be the weaker.

That's always the case but you'd have to be incredibly cack handed and inattentive to manage to tie such a bad knot to have a 30lb braid hooklink end up weaker than a 10-12lb mainline.
 

The bad one

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I do use hooklinks a lot heavier than my mainline and coated at that.
Why? Because the river I do most of my barbeling is one snag pit from source to mouth. :eek:

Standard setup is 12lb mainline & 20lb hooklink, Kryston Jackal. Never use a hoolink longer than 2 ft and NEVER a fixed lead/feeder. The coating gives the very best abrasive properties you can currently get. Never had a hookling go on me, Ever, in a fight with a fish even when the fish has gone to ground in a snag and scuffed the coating badly.

If the lead/feeder snags up, and it does quite often, in the rocks and I have to pull for a break, I know the only piece of line I'm going to leave in the water that might be baited is the hooklink, with the lead/feeder coming free on the break because it's running. And with that scenario I'm quite settled in my own mind little or no damage will come to a fish that may pick up the possible baited hooklink later after the break.
 

Sean Meeghan

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Do you strip back a bit of coating to make the last bit supple or do you fish the whole hook length coated Phil?

I had a long chat with Dave C a while a go and he suggested trying Quicksilver in very snaggy areas. I've used it a few times since and not had a problem.
 
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binka

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NEVER a fixed lead/feeder.

Totally agree... i've been fishing some very snaggy Trent swims and I only ever attach anything via way of a running swivel on the mainline with a small length of silicone tubing pushed tightly over the free eye of the swivel and the swivel on the lead pushed in to the other end of the tubing, I rarely lose leads to be fair and if you do get snagged up you know that the worst that will happen is that the lead pulls out of the silicone tubing leaving you free to retrieve everything else including the fish.
 

cg74

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"NEVER a fixed lead/feeder."

Why are you (everyone that condemns fixed rigs) saying never?

If you're fishing at 50 yards, and your lead/feeder gets caught up on a sunken tree or wedged in rocks, leaving you no option but to pull for a break.
Where do you think your line will snap?
I'd say if your knots are all good; it'd be mid way between you and the snag, is where it'll give.
So if using a running set up that'll potentially be about 25 yards of line being pulled across a snag. Resulting in a huge great pig tailed ball of line.
Even using a large eyed swivel, is it likely to be pulled free???

Had a lead clip or a rotten-bottom link been used, is it not plausible that the lead/feeder would be more likely to get shed?

On the original question of line strengths, regards hook length line selection. I always use weaker line for my hook link. If I'm looking for abrasion resistance, sometimes I might use the same line as my mainline but weaken its linear strength by putting an overhand knot in the middle.
If using a combi-rig (normally for carp), my set up would be 15lb Power Steel mainline (breaks at 18lb), 20lb fluro boom (breaks at 21lb) and an 18lb braid hinge (breaks at 16lb), so the weakest part of my set up is the braid hinge.

Hook lengths should be selected on the properties desired, be that abrasion resistance, stiffness, suppleness, invisibility, and should be thought of as a part of a whole set up.
I've not heard of much complaint about pike anglers using 30lb traces with 15lb mainline, why?
 

bennygesserit

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seriously I don't understand how its acceptable to leave a fish trailing a hook length ?
 

cg74

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seriously I don't understand how its acceptable to leave a fish trailing a hook length ?

Benny, it's acceptable because it's inevitable. No matter how hard we strive to avoid snapping off - it's going to happen from time to time.

So it's our responsibility to minimise the incurred risks, but you'll see we all have differing opinions as to how best too achieve this
 

The bad one

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"NEVER a fixed lead/feeder."

Why are you (everyone that condemns fixed rigs) saying never?

If you're fishing at 50 yards, and your lead/feeder gets caught up on a sunken tree or wedged in rocks, leaving you no option but to pull for a break.
Where do you think your line will snap?
I'd say if your knots are all good; it'd be mid way between you and the snag, is where it'll give.
So if using a running set up that'll potentially be about 25 yards of line being pulled across a snag. Resulting in a huge great pig tailed ball of line.
Even using a large eyed swivel, is it likely to be pulled free???

Had a lead clip or a rotten-bottom link been used, is it not plausible that the lead/feeder would be more likely to get shed?

Wrong, wrong, wrong! You have no experience of the Ribble mate so I don't think you are qualified to write on it. It's big, it's powerful, it's rock and bolder strewn. What it isn't is some southern ditch with a flow that I can P*** harder than.

Fixed leads, I'm sick to death of finding barbel and chub dead with fixed rigs attached to them because some Richard Head made a vid showing them, the sheep, that that's the way they should fish. On average I find during the summer months 2 a week dead with fixed leads attached. NEVER have I ever found a barbel with a pigs tail running rig attached.
Oh btw I bailiff about 7 miles of prime barbel reaches of the said river.

To the points you make and why you are wrong. Fishing at 50 yards......no option.... I and my mates who fish with running rigs get back after snagging about 90% of our rigs Why? because we know how to and have the patience to persist until we do. And how do we do that? We change the angle of pull many times, even dropping down the river anything up to 100 yards, before the decision is made to pull for a break. When that decision is made to pull for a break, you get directly opposite the snag, point the rod tip at the snag, wind down tight to it and then walk backwards slowly with your hand clapped tight on the spool to stop any line give. You then feel the line slowly go at the knot. If it goes anywhere else you either hear or feel a crack.
I can honestly report that in the last 10 years, by using this method I have only had two line cracks. Also, many times when pulling for a break using this method the whole rig comes free and you get the lot back. This method only works with lines 12 lb and above, anything less and you rarely get the rig back. Fishing rotten bottoms with pendulated leads/feeders is just asking for trouble. The lead/feeder needs to be on the mainline, or as close as possible, not wafting about on piece of line, that can get snagged several times on several rocks.
Now how do we know the hooklinks are going at the knot
1. that's the weakest point in the rigs we use
2. When we've had to pull for a break (using the above method) because of a snagged fish that just won't be teased out of the snag we've caught the same fish a day or two later with the the hooklink in its mouth. The remnants of the knot are there for all to see attached to the swivel.
The Crack usually goes something like this, Here's your hooklink back from the other day.....that big fish you lost weighed 6 lb :D:D:D

Sean yes I usually strip about 4 inches off the hooklink. As I whip all my hooks, eyed and spade ends you get a better hold to the hook with just the braid rather than with the coating on. It also helps to grip a bit tighter my sliding hairs off the back of my hook.

Btw the Jackal is the thinnest coated braid DC does and one I have total confidence in. Before he launched it I used Super Mantis which I still buy and use sometimes. But prefer the Jackal because of its thinness.
 

cg74

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Wrong, wrong, wrong! You have no experience of the Ribble mate so I don't think you are qualified to write on it. It's big, it's powerful, it's rock and bolder strewn. What it isn't is some southern ditch with a flow that I can P*** harder than.

Fixed leads, I'm sick to death of finding barbel and chub dead with fixed rigs attached to them because some Richard Head made a vid showing them, the sheep, that that's the way they should fish. On average I find during the summer months 2 a week dead with fixed leads attached. NEVER have I ever found a barbel with a pigs tail running rig attached.
Oh btw I bailiff about 7 miles of prime barbel reaches of the said river.

To the points you make and why you are wrong. Fishing at 50 yards......no option.... I and my mates who fish with running rigs get back after snagging about 90% of our rigs Why? because we know how to and have the patience to persist until we do. And how do we do that? We change the angle of pull many times, even dropping down the river anything up to 100 yards, before the decision is made to pull for a break. When that decision is made to pull for a break, you get directly opposite the snag, point the rod tip at the snag, wind down tight to it and then walk backwards slowly with your hand clapped tight on the spool to stop any line give. You then feel the line slowly go at the knot. If it goes anywhere else you either hear or feel a crack.
I can honestly report that in the last 10 years, by using this method I have only had two line cracks. Also, many times when pulling for a break using this method the whole rig comes free and you get the lot back. This method only works with lines 12 lb and above, anything less and you rarely get the rig back. Fishing rotten bottoms with pendulated leads/feeders is just asking for trouble. The lead/feeder needs to be on the mainline, or as close as possible, not wafting about on piece of line, that can get snagged several times on several rocks.
Now how do we know the hooklinks are going at the knot
1. that's the weakest point in the rigs we use
2. When we've had to pull for a break (using the above method) because of a snagged fish that just won't be teased out of the snag we've caught the same fish a day or two later with the the hooklink in its mouth. The remnants of the knot are there for all to see attached to the swivel.
The Crack usually goes something like this, Here's your hooklink back from the other day.....that big fish you lost weighed 6 lb :D:D:D

Sean yes I usually strip about 4 inches off the hooklink. As I whip all my hooks, eyed and spade ends you get a better hold to the hook with just the braid rather than with the coating on. It also helps to grip a bit tighter my sliding hairs off the back of my hook.

Btw the Jackal is the thinnest coated braid DC does and one I have total confidence in. Before he launched it I used Super Mantis which I still buy and use sometimes. But prefer the Jackal because of its thinness.

When did this thread become one exclusively based on the Ribble? Not that it matters because knowledge is transferable.

If it's that snaggy; the lead should be dumped on the take, if they are not - that's a failing of the angler and not the technique!
If you are losing that many fish to incorrectly set up rigs, why haven't you got them banned?
Also do you inspect anglers rigs to check whether they are constructed correctly?
 
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The bad one

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When did this thread become one exclusively based on the Ribble? Not that it matters because knowledge is transferable.

If it's that snaggy; the lead should be dumped on the take, if they are not - that's a failing of the angler and not the technique!
If you are losing that many fish to incorrectly set up rigs, why haven't you got them banned?
Also do you inspect anglers rigs to check whether they are constructed correctly?

It didn't become exclusively about the Ribble. I gave my technique for fishing it and you questioned it with...... "NEVER a fixed lead/feeder."

Why are you (everyone that condemns fixed rigs) saying never?

As to knowledge being transferable, well I've seen that southern ditch transferable knowledge come and I've seen it go, usually with frustration due to the amount of gear they lose.

The deliberate dumping of leads is a questionable practice at best, lead is a heavy metal and a contaminant. Not one that should be advocated on rivers or stills that feeds water into the water supply system.

Sorry, but yet again you show your lack of knowledge on this river, there are 6 clubs and several dayticket fisheries that control lengths on the barbel reaches. I and my fellow bailiffs can only police our club's lengths, not other clubs who in many cases have the opposite bank. Nor can I or anyone else say which bank or club lengths the bad practices were being used on when the fish was lost. It's conceivable those fish were hooked and lost 5 miles up river and the carcase and lead/feeder drifted down on a flood pulse and settled out on our club lengths.
Any ban on fixed leads has to come from the EA under a local bylaw for the river for the reasons I've given and the chances of that are about nil!

As a bailiff, all one can do is educate "our" members that fixed leads/feeders are a bad idea from a fish welfare point of view on the Ribble. As for the other clubs and dayticketers You tell me?
 
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