The angler as an individual

I can't remember now how many years I've been saying this, but we all think we are 'brothers' of the angle' as someone once said. Yet there are so many things that divide us.

Take for example the close season. I for one am totally against it and would love nothing better than to see it rid of, but I would not be against local groups setting up their own close seasons on particualr stretches of river that they feel would be vulnerable. Now on this subject, Fred Bonney and I (and some others) will argue until the day is long and never agree, but it is a major issue that divides us. (I'll come back to this one at the end.)

Then there are those anglers who use keepnets and many that don't and would never condone their use even though they are proven to do no damage if used correctly or very little harm even if abused slightly. Just another example and some of those in favour of the close season will be split on this issue.

Then you could ask about barbed or barbless hooks. Some swear that a barbed hook doesn't move around as much and therefore causes less damage and others will contradict that. Whatever, it's another issue that would divide those in favour of keenets and the close season and those not in favour of either. So now you would have eight groups of anglers.

Keep going with different issues and you will end up with many thousands of groups of anglers, some will agree with others on some issues and disagree with them on others.

But let's just looks at that statement again - Brothers of the Angle. That is how we should appear to the public and certainly to Government. And yet when after many years of split ideologies and different groups/camps in which we placed ourselves, we get an opportunity for ONE BODY to fight on our behalf, a lot want to shut it out, even shut it down.

I can still understand those that might have difficulties finding the £25 fee to join up, but I am increasingly finding it difficult to understand those who want to fight battles against outside interests and influences and yet still not wanting to join up. Isn't it time to put aside and petty squabbles, past history, differences between one group and another and present a unified crusade to those that matter? Shouldn't we be seeing that the one organisation we have dreamed of having since angling became a passtime be successful and recognised as a national institution*?

(*It is anyway whether you like it or not)

Now to my original issue, the close season. You see, people like myself and Fred could have many differences of opinion, not just the close season and both of us very set in our ways, but it doesn't prevent the two of us from joining Angling Trust and fighting together. We met each other just a few weeks ago when Fred was lucky (he would say skill, I'm sure ) to catch a couple of barbel on our bit and we get on well. We put aside our differences simply because we enjoy what we do - FISHING! Furthermore, we want to see our fishing improved and isn't that what the Trust is about?


Yes, this is a plug, but more than that it's a plea to put down your swords and poisoned pens (keyboards, whatever), stop this internicine war. If you still feel you can't or don't want to join then fine, but drop all the anti-publicity towards it. That doesn't do anyone any good and if there's some good news coming out of the Trust, like the recent blocking of the hydro on the Trent, leave it to people to judge for themselves and make their own minds up as to whether or not to join. And don't jump in when someone, whoever it is, encourages them to do so.

A bit of peace and harmony, please. (If we get it I shall even remove my signature in respect, although it was written tongue-in-cheek.) I promise I will not post any further smug or insulting remarks unless it is in retaliation. How long this lasts depends on..... :wh

Ah but!

I've given up arguing about the Close Season Jeff, as I said at the last round of the free for all starting around March 15th every year.
Not in my life time.

All I shall do in future is steer people in the direction of the EA "census", because they(EA)won't do anything about the Close Season when they can see the response from those that bothered to complete the questionnaire.

And before anybody say's something along the lines of "not many participated" I'll say serves you right then, you had your chance to influence and couldn't be bothered.
Which nicely brings it back to the other part of your post about those who think joining the Angling Trust won't do anything for them!
Without the Angling Trust anglers will have no say on what the EA,or any other organisation, may decide to do without talking to anglers first

In closing, there are some of my family I wouldn't share a river bank with. So, the two or three on here who keep trying to have a dig, wouldn't make the slightest difference to me, and never have.

Any chance of another day on the stretch Jeff before Close Season

There's plenty of truth in what you've said. I've met a few folk that were uniformly hated (perhaps too strong a word, but you know what I mean) on various forums but were perfectly easy to get along with in real life. There are plenty of people, whose views on many subjects that I totally disagree with, that I get on just fine with.

I don't require anyone to agree with me for me to get along with them. Frankly, I'd be bored and deeply suspicious if everyone did agree with me on every subject. I don't want to change anyone's opinion on anything and don't really give a damn what others think of me. The biggest problems arise when people start believing that their opinion is the only one that's correct and the only one that counts. People have different experiences and opinions based upon those experiences. Just because another holds different opinions based on their own unique set of experiences does not make either incorrect. Opinions are exactly what they say, opinions, not irrefuteable facts. Too many confuse that.

I'm afraid that the whole "brothers of the angle" thing is a bit too hippy drippy for my tastes. There are a multitude of anglers, who share that common interest with me, that I don't want to be associated with in any way shape or form. However, I will always resist the temptation to classify them into neat little boxes that are complete nonsense. I know full well that not all match anglers are x, all carp anglers are y, all ATr members angling paragons, all non-ATr members not real anglers etc etc.

Fred Bonney said:

In closing, there are some of my family I wouldn't share a river bank with.

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Good line, Fred. In my case, I would go so far as to say not "river bank", but "this planet".

As for the Brotherhood of The Angle, I have long been a believer - fishers in the round generally are a very decent bunch, unless they have been turned by prima donnas and the like.

If you look at any club or society there are always different factions some times opposing factions but if the society or club comes under threat the members will pull togther to get the problem sorted out . I have never seen angling as a social exercise preffering my own company most of the time but when not fishing it is a totally different kettle of fish. I get along and respect other anglers even though we may disagree on many things and are opposed to each others ideas as to what is best but when invited to fish each of us accepts and enjoys each others company and the banter is an essential part of the day and at the end of the day we are bound by a common interest Angling.

Fred Bonney said:

there are some of my family I wouldn't share a river bank with.

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Some of mine still live in Britain and that's too damned close. They can forget any bone marrow too.

Fred Bonney said:

Any chance of another day on the stretch Jeff before Close Season

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Whenever you like Fred, but your swim is a bit ........... too turbulent at the moment. Wasn't your swim 12ft to the right of that sign?

There or thereabouts Jeff...thanks.

It’s a shame this thread is about the AT as when I saw the term Brother of the Angle I thought it was going to be about how we interact with other anglers, on the net and on the bank as it were.

I love the common bond that being a Brother of the Angle can bring. Fellow brothers will pass on tips and hints, and even help fellow anglers with locations. I have lost count of the amount of times I have done a bit of fish spotting with complete strangers. Common bond.

If I met an angler on the bank then I presume him to be a Brother of the Angle. That is not always the case though and hope can be dashed when a potential brother turns out to be a grunting knob, incapable of original thought and intent on showing no angling etiqutte. The worst are those who think being a secret squirrel improves them as anglers, half of them don’t even know how to do that properly either! I must admit to being a secret squirrel over the internet but not when I meet other anglers on the bank, there is nothing worse than shifty slyness in the company of your fellow angler. If an angler has rocked up in your swim asking what you have caught then he obviously knows the swims exists, its not that secret after all!

So yes I am a Brother of the Angle, are you?

benny samways said:

It’s a shame this thread is about the AT as when I saw the term Brother of the Angle I thought it was going to be about how we interact with other anglers, on the net and on the bank as it were.

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It is and it isn't. The rest of the post shows you got the wrong angle... Sorry to say.

I'm not bothered how we argue with each other about this and that, it's natural. It's also natural that you will find anglers on the bank who are as you state, secret squirrels, miserable gits, and useless tossers. But all that apart it is how we appear to the public...

I would like to think that we are a heterogeneous mass, each an individual and different in so many aspects, but together as one when it comes to our presence in society. Oh and how teh Trust represents us... Perhaps I'm dreaming.


(Note to self: Lay off the rum... )

Jeff Woodhouse said:

I would like to think that we are a heterogeneous mass, each an individual and different in so many aspects, but together as one when it comes to our presence in society. Oh and how teh Trust represents us... Perhaps I'm dreaming.

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Here's an admission for you. I actually quite like the sound of the ideal. Unfortunately, I'm a bit less than impressed with the reality. However, before I get jumped on, that has nothing to do with the members or even those within the organization, trying the utmost, on limited resources.

benny samways said:

The worst are those who think being a secret squirrel improves them as anglers, half of them don’t even know how to do that properly either! I must admit to being a secret squirrel over the internet but not when I meet other anglers on the bank, there is nothing worse than shifty slyness in the company of your fellow angler. If an angler has rocked up in your swim asking what you have caught then he obviously knows the swims exists, its not that secret after all!

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Of course he knows it exists Benny, you're sitting in it!

Personally, I won't give anything away to a stranger about the swim(s) I'm fishing, since I'm there because I believe (or know) it holds specimen-sized fish. And I'd prefer not to have a queue every time I want to fish it.
Unless I'm fishing with a mate, the further away from me the next angler is, the happier (and more confident) I am.

Brother of the angle? Only to friends or offering generalised advice to people who ask for help bankside.

Yes, I'm pro Angling Trust, but there are always people who seem to thrive in being against whoever's taking a lead in the political sphere (regardless of the activity it represents), it just seems to be part of the Human Condition.
They're usually best ignored.

I am "billy no mates now " as it stands . At one point in our lives we all feel the ideology of being in the brotherhood but and here's the but ,a lot of us enjoy the fact that we can fish on a bank or whatever and leave the real world behind . I for don't give tinkers in what method or bait etc that I am using as long as the fish are not harmed and I am enjoying it .
Everybody feels the need to get on their soapbox at one time in life or another but for gods sake we do not and I repeat do not need another organization to start calling forth fire and brimstone from the pulpit .

Why cannot we as Anglers have some sort or umbrella organization that will look after our needs without any of this brownie point scoring with no political affiliation or is that like wishing for pigs to fly.
Bring on the Popular peoples front of Judea

Same old story

Putting a pony on a lame horse doesn't make you a 'Brother of the Angle.' Being a 'Brother of the Angle' as it has been put entails more than supporting a lost cause by putting a bit of money their way.

What about physical help? For example I now give one day full day a week of my time to an animal sanctuary working with rescued horses. Before that I helped out as and when needed with dog training and behavioral issues at another animal sanctuary. In the UK I fished the Rivers Don and Dearne before coming out to France and cleared a lot of rubbish from the banks and made accessible swims where they had been none. I've also gained a lot of knowledge about specimen fish in overlooked and virtually unfished waters that I still share with friends. In Cyprus I regularly bring back two or three sack fulls of rubbish every time I fish the dams, and clear up a lot of discarded line. I have set up at least three new anglers with enough gear to get them started at fishing and helped them with the basics of finding fish and how to catch them. Not just sticking them in a numbered peg on a commercial, but showing them how to find and catch their own fish. Here in France anyone who has family or friends coming out for a holiday knows that I will take any of them fishing with me or show them where to fish, loan them tackle, etc.

But of course I'm not a 'Brother of the Angle' in some people's eyes because I haven't paid for membership

Jeff Woodhouse said:

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(Note to self: Lay off the rum... )

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Theres a divide straight away, Jeff. Making any spirit imo is a waste of good water. Beer on the otherhand but 'proper real' Northern beer at that.

I seem to be pretty lucky, as I have met and been advised by a few true "Brothers of the Angle". Sometimes if you need a bit of advice, it's how you ask.

I needed a bit of advice on grayling fishing a few years ago and also asked regarding a specific water, some of the members on here couldn't have been more helpful. They PM'd me with as good a description of the fishery as you could want, one of the guys met me on the fishery on the day that I said I was going, how nice was that?

I joined a new club at the beginning of this season and on one of the lakes had the good fortune to bump into a chap who had caught Cat's out of there approaching 100lbs, he not only showed me the photos of the fish that he had caught but showed me the methods he used in detail. Another guy from another club I belong to, mainly a carper, showed me a photo of a large Perch he had caught and following his advice I had a few cracking fish myself.

If I am in a position to help another angler then I will, unless he seems to fall into the categories of an; a/hole or a k/all.

If you don't give or receive help then ask yourself; could I be a; a/hole or a k/all?

You can give help to other folk without considering yourself (or wanting) to be part of this utopian "brother of the angle" nonsense. If I'm in the position to help another angler, whether I do or not will be based entirely on whether I'd want them sat with me on a bank. If the answer to that is no, there's no help for them until that changes. If that makes me the ******** you describe, I could not care less, it works for me.

I have fished for 30/40 odd years from the Goodwin Sands in the English channel to the River Findhorn in Scotland. Helped many a angler on the way and many have helped me. Never been called a "**********" bigot, tightarse, or told to shut up etc. When are you going to lay off all that c--p Jeff and start listening to your brothers of the angle as you put it. I said more than once an Atrust that every one is happy, can afford and proud to join is a good thing which was completely ignored. Everything you need to know how to achieve that is in that debate but, you stick and your friends just stick your head in the sand. Why not show some respect and listen to your brothers opinions and do something about it.
You want a debate where only the pros and not the cons are put forward, you learn nothing. What would be the point. Although I think this forum will/is ending up like that, if that's what you want. I myself had some interesting points about that Hydro Scheme that got an injunction in the sense that a balanced view weighing up some pro and cons would not go amiss. Cant do it now. You have quite cleverly but unwisely painted as bad a picture of me and others as you can so, that no one is going to listen my opinions or respect my view (your words) or answer my posts. Not really bothered that much by all that but You divided, now un-divide, not for me but, your other brothers of the angle if you really believe that to be true. Apologise to them and they might be on your side.

markg said:

When are you going to lay off all that c--p Jeff and start listening to your brothers of the angle as you put it. I said more than once an Atrust that every one is happy, can afford and proud to join is a good thing which was completely ignored. Everything you need to know how to achieve that is in that debate but, you stick and your friends just stick your head in the sand. Why not show some respect and listen to your brothers opinions and do something about it.

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Just what are you on? Bit early in the morning to be hitting the bottle.

Your aggression is quite clear, but what it's about plainly isn't clear. Instead of ranting have you ever thought about stating a case clearly in plain English without the aggro? Ah, but of course, if you missed the point I was trying to make in the opening post, then why should I expect a reasonable response from you otherwise...

markg said:

I myself had some interesting points about that Hydro Scheme that got an injunction in the sense that a balanced view weighing up some pro and cons would not go amiss.

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What injunction? If you've been moderated don't blame me, I've nothing to do with it.

Clumsy post, can't make out what you're on about. Can't even understand half of it.

Brothers of the Angle? Really?

It sounds like something out of a fourth rate Dan Brown book!

It conjures up images of old duffers comparing the size of their maggots!

terry m said:

Brothers of the Angle? Really?

It sounds like something out of a fourth rate Dan Brown book!

It conjures up images of old duffers comparing the size of their maggots!

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'My friend is one, that would fain be a brother of the Angle....................'

From Izaak's book
Jerry