Fishing knots

This thread is not aimed at annoying a few members of this forum......however it is wrong to post advice that is clearly incorrect.

There ARE knots that do not weaken monofilament nylon, fluorocarbon, spectra and wire.
These are knots or joints that have been tested and proved to retain 100% of the material (line) strength, this is a fact, proven on high tech line testers by qualified scientists.

Online there are many many sites around the world which give good advice on HOW to tie knots and joints correctly and their retained percentage of the line strength. (Correct is one that does not self destruct).

As a case in point, a Polamar knot, tied with the hook passing through the loop one way will break at approx 40% of the line strength, if it passed through the loop the other way the knot retains upwards of 85%of the line strength.

What has prompted this?

There was a thread a few days ago about knots weakening line strength.

I had a mate many years ago who would stop a conversation in the middle of a sentence and then pick it up from the same word sometime later, sometimes it was days later. It was a kind of fault in his internal wiring and most disconcerting until you got used to it.
Should I assume this is something similar?

The thread is strange enough, but I find it exceptionally difficult to believe that any knot tied in the real world, and not lab conditions, will retain 100% of the original line strength.

I would also be surprised.
Jerry

mick b said:

These are knots or joints that have been tested and proved to retain 100% of the material (line) strength

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mick b said:

As a case in point, a Polamar knot, tied with the hook passing through the loop one way will break at approx 40% of the line strength, if it passed through the loop the other way the knot retains upwards of 85%of the line strength.

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Might be knot picking but neither 40% or 85% are 100%... no matter which way the hook passes through the loop...



Jason

I use a tucked half blood knot,which ive recently been told by someone in the trade,breaks at around 50% of the breaking strain,now either im brilliant at playing fish,or pussy foot about with them(neither of which is true),or something does'nt ring true,my P.B. list has one or two good fish in it and i dont get broke very often,in fact i havnt been broken whilst barbel fishing for several years,ive been told to change to the palomar by several anglers and to be fair ive tried to practice the knot but have found it difficult to get a safe and satisfactory knot with any regularity,ive also been told my loop knot is useless too,thats never once let me down in 40+ years of angling,oh well,back to the drawing board.

alan whittington said:

I use a tucked half blood knot,which ive recently been told by someone in the trade,breaks at around 50% of the breaking strain,now either im brilliant at playing fish,or pussy foot about with them(neither of which is true),or something does'nt ring true

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I'll second that, i've been using the old faithful tucked half blood knot for well over thirty years and don't have any problems.

Everyone will tell you the figure of 8 loop knot is cr@p but I can't remember ever having one let me down despite using them almost exclusively for my hook lengths for thirty odd years.
Tie it, test it, use it..............If it fails tie it again....As the chef said, "It's not rocket salad".

Terry M is correct.

Presumably members join and read this forum to gain knowledge and increase their skill base, amongst other things, thus we should try and post correct information which assists members rather than that which give false impressions.

I did not wish to attack any individual so posted this thread to encourage an informed discussion only.

Now onto knots or joints.
The Bimini Twist is a join which retains 100% of the line strength.
This join forms a loop which can then be used to attach a swivel via a offshore swivel knot (again a 100% connection) a loop to loop connection (a 100% connection) or a hook using both legs of the Bimini loop.
The Tuna knot retains 100% of the line strength when tied in Fluorocarbon and almost 100% in mono.

Many knots have been tested by line manufacturers since the Instron tester was designed, with some of the leading line companies employing highly skilled anglers and technicians to design good knots, perhaps the best of the recent bunch being the Justice Knot for joining spectra and mono ( I have personal experience of the resilience of this knot) which also tests in the high 90%ages in mono to mono.

As for knots not breaking while in use, most UK freshwater rods cannot pull beyond 3lbs when fully loaded (bent into their fighting curve) so the gain from using heavy line is mostly via abrasion resistance rather than the knot breaking while under load. Thus using a 10lb line with a (genuine) 3lb test curve rod will allow you a 200% leeway with your knots.

Now for a bit of lighthearted fun.
When your together with your fishing friends ask each of them what is the best knot they can tie?
Then get 4ft of 20lb mono and a decent sized swivel and ask a couple of them to tie their best knot to opposite ends of the swivel.
Lastly get each of them to put the loop of line around their hand, ensuring that their knot is at the far end of the swivel, and pull until the weakest knot breaks!
Whoever has tied the weakest knot gets the swivel whacked around his hand.
Hilarious mg: IF you can tie a good knot, painful if can't!

mick b said:

Now for a bit of lighthearted fun. When your together with your fishing friends ask each of them what is the best knot they can tie? Then get 4ft of 20lb mono and a decent sized swivel and ask a couple of them to tie their best knot to opposite ends of the swivel. Lastly get each of them to put the loop of line around their hand, ensuring that their knot is at the far end of the swivel, and pull until the weakest knot breaks! Whoever has tied the weakest knot gets the swivel whacked around his hand. Hilarious IF you can tie a good knot, painful if can't!

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This crude test is also useful for calibrating two weighing scales. Simply hook two scales together apply tension and tie off around two trees, fence posts etc. and read off the measurements. It is generally accepted that a good quality digital scale will be the more accurate in comparison to your mates aldi cheapo spring scale! :wh

BTW, are you familiar with the new no-knot technology?

I think as long as the knot or knots you use do not let you down then that is it I cannot remember the last time I had a knot fail on me. If your knot are letting you down then you must be doing something wrong. I got hold of some of that nanofil and if you can tie a knot in that that will stand up to a jerk test then your knots will hold tied in any material.

Big problem with Knots is that different line, different diameters of line and joining different diameters of line all require a different knot. An angler with only one knot in the armoury is on dodgy ground.

alan whittington said:

I use a tucked half blood knot,which ive recently been told by someone in the trade,breaks at around 50% of the breaking strain,now either im brilliant at playing fish,or pussy foot about with them(neither of which is true),or something does'nt ring true,my P.B. list has one or two good fish in it and i dont get broke very often,in fact i havnt been broken whilst barbel fishing for several years,ive been told to change to the palomar by several anglers and to be fair ive tried to practice the knot but have found it difficult to get a safe and satisfactory knot with any regularity,ive also been told my loop knot is useless too,thats never once let me down in 40+ years of angling,oh well,back to the drawing board.

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Alan, I have been using the 5 turn half tucked blood not for years too and it has never let me down. I am to lazy to bother with fancy knots and besides I am allways to busy admiring my shiny expensive fishing tackle to worry about silly little things like knots

Merry Christmas cg74

---------- Post added at 12:16 ---------- Previous post was at 12:06 ----------

mick b said:

Now for a bit of lighthearted fun.
When your together with your fishing friends ask each of them what is the best knot they can tie?
Then get 4ft of 20lb mono and a decent sized swivel and ask a couple of them to tie their best knot to opposite ends of the swivel.
Lastly get each of them to put the loop of line around their hand, ensuring that their knot is at the far end of the swivel, and pull until the weakest knot breaks!
Whoever has tied the weakest knot gets the swivel whacked around his hand.
Hilarious IF you can tie a good knot, painful if can't!

Click to expand...

Well I am Sorry to spoil your ''light hearted fun'' but doing ''tricks'' like this can cause serious accidents! You will be laughing on the other side of your face when one of your mates gets a swivel embedded in his eye...Bloody stupid!

Getting the line through the rod rings these days is a struggle, tying a bimini twist in 3lb line in the cold and wet no chance. Not the best knot for a hook anyway and for joining line the allbright is as good and oh so much easier to tie.

"Well I am Sorry to spoil your ''light hearted fun'' but doing ''tricks'' like this can cause serious accidents! You will be laughing on the other side of your face when one of your mates gets a swivel embedded in his eye...Bloody stupid!"

Sorry Mark but your completely wrong.
The swivel follows the path of the force imparted by the stretched line and strikes the hand, it never goes anywhere near the eyes (unless your hand is in front of your nose)
Prove it yourself with 3lb line but wear gloves (safety glasses optional)?


I confess that for freshwater I only use the Grinner, 3 turn Water Knot and the Snell in mono, and the Haywire Twist for wire. For sea fishing I use whatever is appropriate.
And yes I can tie around 40 or so various knots, I'm just a knot-nut!

laguna said:

BTW, are you familiar with the new no-knot technology?

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As a self-confessed "knot nut", the no-knot wouldn't be of any interest to you, but apparently it retains 100% line strength using same or different diameters/type of line - without heat or glue and I'm not talking about the KK!

laguna said:

As a self-confessed "knot nut", the no-knot wouldn't be of any interest to you, but apparently it retains 100% line strength using same or different diameters/type of line - without heat or glue and I'm not talking about the KK!

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No-Knot
Finally managed to find some info of this knot, by a German guy on YouTube!
Never seen it before, but certainly a quick and easily tied connection between an eyed hook and braid.
The interesting point the extra insurance provided by the loop knot, because if the knot slips it jams against the wraps making the knot tighten.

Just a question, doesn't braid damage the mouth of a hard fighting carp?

mick b said:

Just a question, doesn't braid damage the mouth of a hard fighting carp?

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There is a big difference between the low diameter braided main line and braided hook lengths - a good braid hook length is believed to be kinder to fish than mono - reel line should never be used as a hook length.
Jerry