Why I don't like carp

There was a time, during the sixties when I thought carp the ultimate species. It was of course during those heady days of the formation of the specimen groups. I fished for carp on odd occasions with Tag Barnes at a small lake near Harrogate. This was carping of the classic kind. Mk IVs, freelining, balanced paste and crust, lovely sunsets and sweet smelling dawns.

Straight out on BB it was.

Then I emigrated to South Africa. There I found that carp, once I had learned the local methods (Bolt rigs), were easy to catch. They also had taken over vast stretches of river where once swam in abundance some of the most beautiful freshwater species that have ever existed on this planet.

Carp were doing their worst.

I lost interest in them to the point where whenever I caught one I was not only disappointed but occasionally disgusted.

This has left it's impression on me for life I guess.

There is one big difference beween carp and all the other species of fish that swim in England. Carp are the only species that have become like they are today as a result of man's intervention. In the same family we also have kois, and the various species of goldfish. Carp were developed by man for food - nothing less. The other species of this family were developed for show and pets.

When I go fishing I want where possible to hunt a true wild creature. The vast majority of hunters would never set out to capture a domestic dog, pig or cow. In the same manner I don't want to catch an "overgrown goldfish".

I have nothing against carp anglers. They are entitled to fish for whatever they like. However what does raise my hackle is peole who talk of stocking carp into places like Ireland, or in our rivers. These places are home to our natural indigenous species, species that truly belong here. And because they are native, they should be given priority.

Call be a racist if you like, but there is a whole world of difference beteen comparing differences in humans to comparing differences in fish.

Ron,
Surely the point of none native fish would also stop the stocking of Barbel as I've been told they too are not native to british waterways but were introduced from mainland europe.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I'm no expert on this but aeons ago, our islands were joined to Europe. Most the easterly flowing rivers in England were connected to the Maas/Rhine system where barbel were endemic.

Barbel have existed in many of our easterly flowing rivers, eg: Thames, Gt Ouse, Trent, York Ouse etc for a great deal of time. They were never piut there by man but by nature, there lies the differnce.

I'm willing to bet that a barbel of 1000 years ago looks very much like the barbel of today.

Not so the carp.

Ron,
You have caused a bit of a stir the last few days.....but i'll say one thing you have the bottle to voice your opinion.

..and long may he continue.

Ron
So going by your argument all barbel in west flowing rivers ie the Severn should be irradicated due to them being stocked by the Angling Times in the 70`s.If there was no artificial stocking there would only be game fish in our rivers north of Manchester due to the effects of the ice age. And a lot of fish migrated north due to the building of canals which is man unintensionally artifically stocking waters. So I don`t think your argument is based on any balance of nature argument more on a snobbery against carp.

Gary,
There were plenty who wanted the Barbel eradicated in the early days....they were blamed for the down turn in chub /roach fishing on the Severn and they were on occasions tossed up the bank to die......how times have changed!

No matter what is said about carp they are big business.I would not like to see carp
every where i fish but sadley some carp anglers dont consider any other species to be worth while and with this being the fastest growing party of fishing then at the mo they do have the bigger voice.I am not againtest carp but they are here to stay and there is not a lot we can do about it.I mean culling of fish good ammo for the antis.dan

But surely "by nature" is how some carp ended up rivers.
By this I mean "mother" nature decides how much rain we have (I wish we could purcuade her different!!) leading rivers to flood and sometimes leading fish to change habitats river to stillwater and vica verca!

I think I can see what Ron is tallking about. I feel the same in some respects. I differ in that I do like to fish for carp occasionally. What I am sick of seeing, however, is lakes and ponds ruined by the indiscriminate stocking of carp. Where carp are going to be artificially introduced the system needs to be looked at carefully. Some waters are very conducive to carp breeding whereas others are not. I would like to see less carp being introduced to natural waters where they may breed with success purely because they inevitably take over the water. I see nothing wrong in waters specially designed for carp - including breeding - being dug. Both Australia and New Zealand regret the stocking of carp into their waterways simply because they are a destructive species when conditions are optimal for them. I do not advocate wholesale removal of carp and I suspect neither does Ron. But please, no more deliberate stocking unless it's a carp only water.

Kevan

I wouldn't say I was anti-carp, or anti-carp fishermen but I have to admit to sharing Ron's views on some of the points he has raised about carp. Sure, the upsurge in carp fishing has produced a multitude of 'new' waters where large tench, bream, perch and roach now proliferate but there is also no getting away from the fact that many, more natural waters have been ruined by the introduction of what is little more than an eating machine.

A few of the mere's and lakes that I used to fish for bream and tench have now been irrevocably ruined by the intruduction of carp. The once clear waters are conatantly 'muddied' by their feeding throughout summer and any, and I mean ANY bait that we have tried just attracts carp before the more sedentary bream and tench get a look in. Once they are in there is no turning back, you never get them out.

I see absolutely nothing wrong with carp fisheries, and have little problems with carp anglers but what I am increasingly worried with is the stocking of carp into mature, existing waters that already produce specimen fish of other species.

The EA are now being very strict on the introduction of the wells catfish into places where they can escape into neighbouring waterways and I would also like to see more stringent guidelines for the introduction of carp. Like Craig says, maybe this is down to 'nature' (flooding) but if it were illegal to stock carp into fisheries adjacent to rivers, this could be largely avoided.

Another major problem here is illegal stockings from fish thefts, I know carp lads aren't the only culprits here (just look at the ribble barbel !) but a lot of waters are being selfishly turned into carp waters by 'locals' bringing fish from other waters into spots near to their own homes. This I think is inexcusable and one that should carry heavy fines, or even imprisonment.

Finallly, and perhaps one which I'm about to take a load of stick for, once a few big carp have been caught from a water, due to their popularity, you can get a peg ! ! ! !

First of all I think that global warming is for real. As our waters become warmer, the carp's ability to propogate itself will grow.

Carp are an extremely invasive species with high fecundity. Don't just beleieve me look at what has happened world wide!!

We have seen in the UK how some natural lakes have been stocked with carp and in time these fish have predominated. If we don't somehow stop this mass stocking of carp, in 20 years time or so, such species as rudd, bream,perch, dace or even gudgeon may become history, only to be seen in a fish museum.

Then maybe long after I am dead and gone, someone will say: "That silly old f..t Clay was right you know."

By the way Gary, we are singing on the same hymnsheet.

And by the way Gary Magee I have seen far more snobbery from carp anglers than vice versa.

The thing that concerns me even more is the steady appearance of these fish in the river systems. Carp in pits and lakes whatever damage they may do, can be isolated, irradicated or moved. Having returned to the Thames after a number of years I was astonished by the numbers of carp competing for food with everything else. The Australians have the right idea. Catch a carp in the river system and by law you must kill it. The Murray River system is slowly returning to normal and the native fish stocks are slowly recovering.
I keep koi carp in my garden pool and have done so for years, they give me pleasure but that's where I think they should remain. My attitude might not sit well with dedicated carp or other predator anglers but I tire of the times I hear about carp and catfish being smuggled into the country from potentially diseased european stocks, alien species being illegally introduced, or the guys who want to introduce Muskie and would you believe Tigerfish into UK. They usually are witless businessmen who are just in it for the bucks and who have no conception of the damage that this can do. I have a garden full of grey squirrels, I've never seen a native red one. I'm thinking of trapping some cormorants and gradually introducing them to a diet of grey squirrel and then releasing them. Two birds with one stone.Wanna catch a giant carp go to eastern Europe, wanna catch a tigerfish go to Zimbabwe, on second thoughts..........Power to your pen Ron.

I do feel its a shame sometimes that nearly all the fisheries we fish now days appear to always have a large head of carp. Don't get me wrong they are fun to catch and give a good fight but it would be nice to fish a lake and have a decent bag of mixed fish rather than just carp and a few other species.

The Okavango in Botswana is a better place for Tigers Gerry, friendly people too.

Just had an interesting thought. What happens when the next craze comes along and everyone wants to fish for sturgeon (yes they are here too) What happens to all the carp ?

This is a subject dear to my heart, hence the long mail.
One of the advantages of getting older is that it gives you the opportunity to view things on a longer time scale (obviously) and over the last forty years, which is about as long as I've been fishing, my observations have caused me to completely reverse my thinking on carp.
In my teens and early tenties I fished for carp quite successfully, catching many twenty pound fish (quite big in those days). I was an advocate of carp stocking and often attended the meetings of the various clubs I was associated with in orer to press my case. I have never illegally stocked carp myself but knew many people who did and condoned their action as the right way forward.

For a time, things appeared sweet as more and more fisheries in my area became dominated by carp but slowly, my opinion changed. Several waters took on quite a different character and it became obvious that their character was always the same. Let me tell you about one place in particular which has illustrated the problem;

The water, Taylor Park Lake, close to my home was once a fabulous mixed fishery. The lake had crystal clear water and prolific weed growth and this led to fishing which was hard but which could be spectacular. Roach were the dominant species and what roach they were! Two pound plus fish were common for those who could catch them and occasionally, a three pounder would appear. I promised myself that one day, I would take a break from carping and have a go for those roach.
The water held some bream, small in number but of a great size and the pike fishing was the best in the area. Indeed it was the only place around here where there was a chance of a thirty pound pike.

All these things are gone now.
Illegal introduction of many small carp from a neighbouring water some twenty five years ago has led to a population explosion of carp in the lake. The water has been brown and muddy for more than fifteen years now and there is no weed at all. The roach are still there but the muddy water hides them from predators and so they have proliferated to the point where they have become stunted. A four ounce fish is now a big one. The same has happened to the bream and the pike fishing is now very poor indeed.

To my great regret, I will never have a chance to fish for those magnificent roach now. My biggest pike from the lake is likely to remain 15lbs and I shan't bother to fish for the bream. Even the carp aren't worth fishing for if you like big fish for, being a free water, it's been an easy target for the carp thieves who "crop" the twenty pounders every year.

If you're a carper, you might say "So what! The more carp fishing there is around, the better!"

Just remember, I was like you once, but you are getting older, and soon, you'll be like me!

Eric

Although I hate to say it, older AND wiser !

I don't like carp, either. They have no dress sense, little sense of humour and they never buy their round...