Wakeboarding threat - Please help!!!

michaelrescorle · Feb 5, 2013

Hi everyone, i am appealing for your help. I run a club in East Lancashire and we have a small 6 acre lake that we lease from the local council. We have looked after this water for around 30 years since it was created as part of a landfill site project. In those years we have developed what was a clay banked flooded valley into a beautiful fishery and wildlife haven. In all those years the council have not wanted to know about the place, now they have got some money from the olympics and have decided they want to build a wakeboarding site. I know that there are some fantastically knowledgeable people on here and i am desperate for anyone who has experience of wakeboarding and how it affects angling and aquatic wildlife. Any info or experience would be welcome, obviously this has to go through the planning process so i am desperate for some ammo to fight anglings corner before we lose this lovely place for the sake of a council workers objectives. Please help if you can.

Fred Bonney · Feb 5, 2013

A few questions I would ask you first of all, wakeboarding or not.
What lease term do you have, and do you have sole use ?
Is your club a member of the Angling Trust ?
How many members in your club?

michaelrescorle · Feb 5, 2013

Thanks for reply Fred. We have a peppercorn rent agreement with the council that unfortunately was done as a verbal agreement a lot of years ago that was until recently worked on trust. Yes we are angling trust members and fish legal and we have around 500 members. I am at present about to ask AT what help they could offer us.

Will Barnard · Feb 5, 2013

Rib trotter.
difficult if there is no firm agreement in writing, usually when a lease on a water is made, a usage agreement is set too. When this is the case, you would need to be fully consulted.

Speak to the ATr as soon as you can.

Keep in mind that wakeboarding requires the use of power boats, google power boats and the harm they can do to soft bankside matter, particularly in smaller waters

Also offer as much stock information as possible, if you have a good head of naturally stocked bream, this would indicate strong bloodworm beds which, in the events of wakeboarders falling off every five minutes, could well be destroyed thus damaging a valuable food source.

Just a few things to go at for now, but definitely get the ATr on it.

Jeff Woodhouse · Feb 5, 2013

The club I was secretary of had a lake with water skiing on it. It was only about 9-10 acres in size and once that started fishing went right off. It became a night time only fishery, but the skiing had been going years, the previous committees had allowed it without challenge and teh club had been paying perhaps £3000+ a year for this (1996 prices).

Does it damage the bank? Well one bank of the lake was owned by a couple of brothers who told me that not many years before, they didn't have land that fronted the lake, there was another 10 yards of the other owners (the ones who'd rented to the skiers) land and a wire fence before the lake got to them. In 1996 the lake fronted the brothers' land and that was getting washed away. We put in some platforms, but most of those are washed in also now.

Skiing on lakes is bad, IMO, it's the 250hp engines some of them use. I'm not just saying that because they ruin our sport and the land. I like skiing, had a go once with them, great fun, but I told them afterwards of the damage they were doing and they blanked me. The lake is all but dead now, the EA did a fish survey in 1999 whilst I was secy, and they found just a few carp that we'd put in. The owners then let us have it rent free (no bloody fish that's why) for the next 6 years. Don't think anyone fishes it at all now.

If you ever drive down teh A404 Marlow bypass you see the lake, there's a hotel on one side now. Guests watch the skiers and say "Ooooh goodey"

terry m · Feb 5, 2013

Solar Aquatels, a renowned specimen lake in Basildon was recently converted to a boarding only lake, apparently people on boards and people casting hooks and leads do not mix!!

A great fishery lost to this craze.

I would advie you to push back against this idea very hard!!

Fred Bonney · Feb 6, 2013

All good advice,my guess even at a peepercorn rent the years you club has had possession of the water gives you some clout.
Erosion is a major cosideration to be taken into account, and damage will be done to bankside vegetation and that affects all water born wildlife.

tiinker · Feb 6, 2013

If you contact Thurrock and district angling club I think they maybe able to give you some advice about the effects of wake boarding on a fishery. My advice to you on the rent is to get a proper lease as soon as you can One of my clubs had an agreement like yours for fifty years they have know had a lease since 84 and it is by far the most secure option and gives you more rights as a lease holder look into it it will be worth the trouble.

waggy · Feb 6, 2013

Try the environmental impact statement route to build up a case for peace and tranquility.
For instance, if you have coot, moorhen, grebe, water vole, great crested newt and other waterline nesting/burrowing/ egg laying species the bow and board wash on nests is invariably lethal. Similarly, the eggs of species like fish and newts will not stand being covered in whipped up silt. The same for swan mussel and their dependant silver bream and also amphibian spawn. And don't forget the possible presence of threatened species like the eel. There may also be snakes dependent on the other water life.
And this may rankle with some anglers but otters will not tolerate such disturbance and as the law stands it would be illegal to introduce an activity like wake-boarding if they were regular visitors.
So, the first steps are to get together and discuss what wildlife you know to be there - anglers, like birders are usually quite knowledgeable about these things - and then if it looks promising get a full biological survey organised.
Ask Natural England for advice: are there any species of any local or national importance there? You'd be surprised what a rumpus there might be about an unassuming but threatened water plant - but if you don't have a survey done you will never know. And such findings will not affect the angling since they have co-existed for a number of years now.
There are, if memory serves me correctly, about 30 activities to be considered when declaring a SSSI or other conservation designation so work with the EA and NE to identify what's there and what might be done to protect the site. I should think that wake-boarding would be proscribed under most designations.

michaelrescorle · Feb 6, 2013

Thanks for this, the wakeboarding in this proposal does not use power boats. A cable is going to be suspended 8m above the lake across the width of it approx 110yds. The boarders are pulled backwards and forwards on this wire via a motor on the bank at speeds of up to 40mph.
If anyone knows of any studies that have been carried out into the adverse effects of wakeboarding on sub surface aquatic life it would be great. We do have support from the local birders and wildlife groups and they always seem better at studying things like this than us.
Thanks Tiinker i will try to get in touch with Thurrock aa.

tiinker · Feb 6, 2013

waggy said:
Try the environmental impact statement route to build up a case for peace and tranquility.
For instance, if you have coot, moorhen, grebe, water vole, great crested newt and other waterline nesting/burrowing/ egg laying species the bow and board wash on nests is invariably lethal. Similarly, the eggs of species like fish and newts will not stand being covered in whipped up silt. The same for swan mussel and their dependant silver bream and also amphibian spawn. And don't forget the possible presence of threatened species like the eel. There may also be snakes dependent on the other water life.
And this may rankle with some anglers but otters will not tolerate such disturbance and as the law stands it would be illegal to introduce an activity like wake-boarding if they were regular visitors.
So, the first steps are to get together and discuss what wildlife you know to be there - anglers, like birders are usually quite knowledgeable about these things - and then if it looks promising get a full biological survey organised.
Ask Natural England for advice: are there any species of any local or national importance there? You'd be surprised what a rumpus there might be about an unassuming but threatened water plant - but if you don't have a survey done you will never know. And such findings will not affect the angling since they have co-existed for a number of years now.
There are, if memory serves me correctly, about 30 activities to be considered when declaring a SSSI or other conservation designation so work with the EA and NE to identify what's there and what might be done to protect the site. I should think that wake-boarding would be proscribed under most designations.

Declaring a SSSI is not a road I would reccommend it is a double egdged blade and could cost you your fishing.

Jeff Woodhouse · Feb 6, 2013

tiinker said:
Declaring a SSSI is not a road I would reccommend it is a double egdged blade and could cost you your fishing.

Same with Waggy's Great Crested Newt theory, no one would be allowed on it then, but thankfully newts don't live on waters with fish unless there are places where fish cannot get to (unlikely mind). Snakes were in abundance on our lake with power boats on it so not much in that idea either. Sorry Waggy, some of your other stuff sounds fair though.

Rib Trotter, I'll see if I can speak with a friend, a marine biologist who advises the Trust, he may suggest something. Give me time, but do get onto the Trust without fail.

waggy · Feb 8, 2013

First of all:
Tinker, SSSI desig. will not cost you your fishing but will get you a free comprehensive wildlife survey done by a top-notch team of EA or Natural England biologists. If angling has co-existed with whatever is in there it will not be affected. What may be affected are the types of fish species and aquatic plants you can introduce if the place is designated, though.
And Jeff, newts of all species co-exist easily with fish. Newts tend to hug the marginal vegetation at breeding times and are absent from water for much of the rest of the time. At home here they spend most of the time in my muck heaps and only come to the pond to breed, just like frogs and toads.
And, contrary to popular belief, GC Newts do not prevent other usage of a water. In this case, if they are present, it means that they have already co-existed with angling for a number of years.
You have to use the legislations and systems in place to help your cause wherever it comes from.

tiinker · Feb 8, 2013

And if they find something rare that they say needs protecting you are off over thirty years ago the corn mill stream at the back of Waltham Abby was shut because it is the breeding area for a rare dragon fly and has been closed to angling ever since and this is not the only instence by far.

The bad one · Feb 8, 2013

Waggy's comments in general terms are correct. But depending on the designation of the SSSI and for what it was given, Tinkers point is also a valid one.
As I know Rib Trotter and he's had my detailed thoughts and opinion on this matter I've little to add on the general comments made here.

Regarding SSSIs, my club has leases and has ownership of about 15 waters with SSSI satus. On all, there are some restrictions which we must adhere to under the legally binding Management Agreement which we have with NE.
If we delibrately ignor any part of that MA, like any owner or leasee, we could face criminal action through the courts.

tiinker · Feb 8, 2013

The bad one said:
Waggy's comments in general terms are correct. But depending on the designation of the SSSI and for what it was given, Tinkers point is also a valid one.
As I know Rib Trotter and he's had my detailed thoughts and opinion on this matter I've little to add on the general comments made here.

Regarding SSSIs, my club has leases and has ownership of about 15 waters with SSSI satus. On all, there are some restrictions which we must adhere to under the legally binding Management Agreement which we have with NE.
If we delibrately ignor any part of that MA, like any owner or leasee, we could face criminal action through the courts.

I did say in my original post that it is double edged .

Jeff Woodhouse · Feb 8, 2013

waggy said:
And Jeff, newts of all species co-exist easily with fish. Newts tend to hug the marginal vegetation at breeding times and are absent from water for much of the rest of the time. At home here they spend most of the time in my muck heaps and only come to the pond to breed, just like frogs and toads.

You mentioned in particular the Great Crested Newt and I have known a pond to be withdrawn because a report was made of one being found. It was untrue and the pond was later restored to fishing

The SSSI status water courses and lakes around us have a mandatory close season on them including canals such as the Basingstoke and Wey Nav (although only a very small part of the Wey Nav has an SSSI to my knowledge). Any newts that got into my pond the fish ate them (not frogs though) and when I took teh pond apart I found a dozen or so under the brickwork of the waterfall, how they got there beats me. They were transferred to a small pond in the back garden free of fish. They are smooth newts BTW.

tiinker · Feb 8, 2013

Jeff Woodhouse said:
You mentioned in particular the Great Crested Newt and I have known a pond to be withdrawn because a report was made of one being found. It was untrue and the pond was later restored to fishing

The SSSI status water courses and lakes around us have a mandatory close season on them including canals such as the Basingstoke and Wey Nav (although only a very small part of the Wey Nav has an SSSI to my knowledge). Any newts that got into my pond the fish ate them (not frogs though) and when I took teh pond apart I found a dozen or so under the brickwork of the waterfall, how they got there beats me. They were transferred to a small pond in the back garden free of fish. They are smooth newts BTW.

You more than likely know but newts only go to water to breed the rest of the time they spend on the dry land. I used to get crested and common smooth in my old pond every year and when I filled it in they would still come back in the spring one day my wife found a male and female in one of my bait boxes full of rain water in the garden. I took them over the field pond.

The bad one · Feb 8, 2013

Jeff smooth newts seem to coexsist better with fish than GCN. The problem lies in the fact of the way they lay their eggs. SNs are in strings, whereas GCNs layed them on a aquatic leaf singley and rolled it up slightly. The egg productivity of GCN is much less than SNs for some reason, making the species more vunerable when fish predation happens.

If you read the NE leaflet for developers on GCNs they state they don't spawn in water where fish are. This is not quite factual, there are two very large fishing reservoirs which you know, not too far from the old Lancashire Carpets site. Don't want to give to much away here

That has one of the strongest coloneys of GCN in the Gt M/c area. I regularly see them spawning in the upper reservoir in spring.

terry m · Feb 8, 2013

Bottom line is the business case for a wakeboarding lake is far more attractive than that of a fishery. Sad but true.

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