Close Season Crucians and Tench

Blimey Neil, it's only bl**dy Marsh Farm for God's sake. Anyone that's never fished it knows that the crucians are either crawling up your line or trying to jump into your carryall down there.
It should have been even easier with the recent wind conditions!! /forum/smilies/wink_smiley.gif

Neil,

Great fishing.

I will certainly be on that venue when the 'season' starts and I am really looking forward to doing battle with those Crusians.

It is by reading your contributions that make me think that I really ought to move back to the UK and fish places like that.

Thanks for sharing your adventures.

<blockquote class=quoteheader>Lark wrote (see)</blockquote><blockquote class=quote>Blimey Neil, it's only bl**dy Marsh Farm for God's sake. Anyone that's never fished it knows that the crucians are either crawling up your line or trying to jump into your carryall down there. It should have been even easier with the recent wind conditions!! /forum/smilies/wink_smiley.gif</blockquote>


That's why we both sat there on Tuesday "pulling our hair out" at the pure frustration that is fishing for crucians. /forum/smilies/wink_smiley.gif

Look out tho', you get a mention in part two!/forum/smilies/big_smile_smiley.gif

<blockquote class=quoteheader>Peter Jacobs wrote (see)</blockquote><blockquote class=quote>....I am really looking forward to doing battle with those Crusians.... </blockquote>


Thanks Peter, it will be my pleasure to fish with you again, name the date (obviously post "the 16th") and I'll treat you to a day there.....

..... but please refer to the previous post for a hint at what it's like sometimes...

(insert smiley thing here...)

Brilliant Golden Ba!!s, absolutely brilliant and long may it continue!

Steve,

I've been prebaiting your swim since the 4th April (they "fizzed" once at 08:35am, for 3 minutes on 22nd April, but I reckon they're still in the area).

Get you ar$e down here!

/forum/smilies/wink_smiley.gif

Working on it Neil.

Gotta get some OT in!!! /forum/smilies/sad_smiley.gif

<blockquote class=quoteheader><blockquote class=quoteheader>Neil Maidment wrote (see)</blockquote><blockquote class=quote>

That's why we both sat there on Tuesday "pulling our hair out" at the pure frustration that is fishing for crucians. /forum/smilies/wink_smiley.gif

Look out tho', you get a mention in part two!/forum/smilies/big_smile_smiley.gif</blockquote>
</blockquote>

Damn..... That's my cover blown then!

And, as I'm sure will become clear in part two, only one of us was able to charm the little gits into their swim.... Apart from the occassional p*ss-taker, that is! /forum/smilies/disappointed_smiley.gif

Neil,

Its a great article and your obviously a really good angler, but...unless I'm missing something here...its still a just a commercial...an artificial fishery with artifically grownfish in it...no matter how big they are....

absolutely no offence meant but amI in a minority these days who finds places like this a little shallow (and no I'm not talking depth!)......

I know what you mean Gary. But I'm addicted to the place!

Although the place is only 4 to 5 years old and holds specimen crucians and tench, I find the simple fact that there are no commons/mirrors a huge plus factor.

The complex consists of three lakes:

Harris Lake - <u>the</u> crucian lake that surely holds a record breaker but has a relatively low stock density. Despite some views, it is a tough nut to crack and a lot of people go away very, verydisappointed. Perhaps the publicity machine has over egged the situation, but there again, the fish are there.

Richardson Lake - right next door and anyone can catch crucians, tench, bream etc. Much higher stock density although 3lb+ crucians and 10lb+ tench also reported.

Hill Pond - "learner" and "kids" pool - but has some big crucians as well.

It's a very short drive from where I live and until recently I hadn't "bothered" to fish it, maybe because of similar sentiments to yours. I had become bored with Gold Valley, (which I still have a soft spot for because it was responsible for getting me back into fishing) and was deprived of my Stour/Avon fishing.

I ended up at Marsh Farm and when I landed my first crucian....that was it! I'm currently looking for ways to avoid the tench averaging 5lb+..............

................... I blanked on Sunday!

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As an aside, in conversation, I sort of said the same as Gary......................about Throop! I was almost lynched from the nearest tree./forum/smilies/dont_tell_anyone_smiley.gif

The fact that the chub had gotton so big with all those boilies and pellets.......................................... Ah but! The waters moving, so that's different!

/forum/smilies/big_smile_smiley.gif/forum/smilies/big_smile_smiley.gif

I tend to agree with Gary on this one; it is artificial. Very nice to break your PB (I did the same on a managed stillwater in Wiltshire last year) but similar to catching a 2lb roach from Sway. That took me an hour if my memory serves me right and was incredibly easy compared to trying to get one out of the Stour nowadays. I want a 3lb crucian but I'd like it to come out of one of three club waters that I fish. Whether I can get through the carp, tench and bream (and in one case brown goldfish is another matter) but I shall persevere.

Interestingly, there are some very big chub on totally forgotten stretches of the Stour, not to the same density as Throop, but just as big if not bigger, much shyer, and most certainly NOT as a result of pellets and boilies.

<blockquote class=quoteheader>Gary Knowles wrote (see)</blockquote><blockquote class=quote>

Neil,

Its a great article and your obviously a really good angler, but...unless I'm missing something here...its still a just a commercial...an artificial fishery with artifically grownfish in it...no matter how big they are....

absolutely no offence meant but amI in a minority these days who finds places like this a little shallow (and no I'm not talking depth!)......</blockquote>


Although the lakes are "man made" I understand that the fish are not artificially grown, but were introduced from the big lake over the back of the complex that belongs to the club, where they grew on naturally. I just wonder whether there are still bigger fish left in the big lake.

Personally, I can't see the difference between what Gary describes as "just a commercial" and any of the myriad of gravel pits and reservoirs up and down the country which are "man made" or, indeed, many rivers that have been manipulated by introduction of flood controls, course management and suchlike. For example, the Sussex Rother, which is tidal up to just below Iden, was a few hundred years ago, a huge river where they used to build ships (Time Team excavations proved this) yet now is channeled through to Rye and is only wide enough for two boats to pass.

I think it would be true to say that very few of our "natural" resources have escaped man's intervention at some time, at least.

Whilst aesthetically, it is considered nicer to fish places that appear "natural" I doubt very much that there hasn't been some input from man in the past.

Good fishing, Neil.You have to catch the fish in front of you whatever the water, so well done.There is certainly satisfaction to be had from pioneering big fish from unknown waters but few sadly have the time to mount such a campaign and we should be wary of ranking the captures of others based on where the fish have come from.

I am working on emulating your lifestyle in a few years time.Acouple of days at work to keep the hand in and pay for bait and the rest of the time free for a spot of fishing where and when the fancy takes me.

At this time of year agood chunk of my fishing is normally at "managed" venues of one sort or another. With rivers and local canals out of bounds I usually end up on "commercials" and/or club waters, perhaps guesting if I can persuade someone to invite me! This close season has been somewhat different in that I've ended up concentrating on Marsh Farm.

For me, three things stand out as my compelling reasons to continue to fish there:<ul>[*]An excellent club managed fishery, very well presented, safe and secure. I have been made to feel very welcome there by the locals and will be filling in a membership application very soon (that's at least four lifetimes worth of fishing from my club books now!)[*]The fish stocks are very appealing with not a common/mirror in sight. Despite the press, including this weeks rags, thecrucians do not leap into your landing net. I have found them to be intensly challenging. If the main "specimen" lake gets too "difficult" I can move 50 yards or so into the "match" lake to restore confidence![*]I have exclusively fished the pole at Marsh Farm. All too often my pole fishing has been at carp commercials and has been suitably beefed up to cope with double figure fish. I have truly enjoyed fishing much finer and delicately in the knowledge that I'm not going to encounter such fish (although the tench have been stunning and "fun" on such tackle).[/list]

I certainly don't mean to offend Gary, Mark and others with similar, very valid,views but I can honestly say the last couple of months have provided me with some of the most challenging andmost enjoyable fishing I've encounteredin a very long time. Catching the big crucians (read part two!) is only one small part of that whole package.

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Can I asktwo little questions please?

How many waters hold true crucians?

Would the stocks of true crucians be wiped out without man-made venues to keep them true?

i agree with gary in a way about commercials being densely stocked in comparision to natural gravel pits etc.but then i agree with neil as i have fished loads of commercials in the past! ive fished waters stuffed with fish and watched people blank,i have had to scale down and change presentation to catch a few which is a challenge as neil says!

these waters have seen it all greater angling pressure than natural lakes so the fish are more wiley.

now on the big gravel pits location is the key obviously but maybe ringing the changes might bring the fish

1. Lots, probably a lot more than you think. Some waters I fish definitely have crucians including big ones but you simply cannot get past the bl**dy skimmers, at least Ican't - on one of the waters I haven't had a crucian for nearly 20 years yet they are still there and even the most ardent of specialist has given up the unequal struggle, on the other I know they are there as I've witnessed them but have yet to get one. That's the difference between managed and unmanaged. It can still be difficult to catch fish on managed waters especially where there is lots of pressure; that's where skilful fishing comes in plus a bit of luck in the fish being in a feeding mood. The crucians on the waters where I'd love to catch them are totally unpressured simply for the reason you can't get near them. It's the same with big roach on the unmanaged waters. Nearly all the roach are very small with odd big ones but getting to the big ones is extremely difficult. Three local stillwaters have produced 2lb plus roach in the last few months; I am surprised by this because I didn't think any of them capable of it but the facts are there - these are genuine two pounders (in one case nearer 3lbs), not hybrids. All I need to do is figure out how!

2. No. Crucians, likeall species, breed true most of the time. One water I fish, a gravel pit of about 8 acres, is not managedbut has brown goldfish and true crucians (DNA confirmed). The goldfish do not breed at all, just get older and bigger (about 4lbs now) yet the crucians continue to breed true. With the crucians you either get an old big one of 2lbs plus (an example in the pole book p. 126)or one of the newly minted ones of various sizes, 4oz, 8oz or 1lb which suggests three year classes.It is helping generally that the EA are promoting stocking true crucians; I just wish they'd bar bl**dy F1s and brown goldfish. I don't thinkcrucians get caught because not enough people fish for them in many waters and hence their presence is unsuspected.

If I had a water like MF that close to my home I'd fish it too; pole fishing like that is the very best. I'll have to put up with my local challenges, none of which I seem able to manage - carp to 50lbs, tench to 12lbs, perch to 4lbs, roach to 3lbs+, crucians to 3lbs, barbel to 18lbs, chub to 8lbs, grayling to 3lbs, bream to 15lbs... all on my local club books!

Interesting stuff Mark, but what would happen if a claim were made from a relatively unknown crucian water? Surely there would be a huge amount of doubt about the fish and its purity as opposed to a fish from a man made like Marsh Farm?

It's strange for me to be deffending a commercial, but I think this is where the record for crucians will remain in the future.

I know what you will say Mark, good qualityphotos and pull a scale, but the eveidence will get ripped to bits if it's not from a recognised crucian water!

Not that I will ever be lucky enough to be put in that situation!

Steve,

Now you are on a whole new ball game! Accept the current record was accepted on the basis of a) excellent photos, b) the fact that other fish from the same water seemed to check out (dissection), and your argument crumbles a little. It is an ugly old brute, and the fish wasn't too good looking either! You're right, the next record may well come from Marsh Farm although there are other potential contenders simply because low stock density pits are producing extraordinary fish nowadays (see my club water list).

Although I don't think the fish in it are anything like big enough, the crucians in my local lake that I can catch are true enough yet the club's crucian cup is always claimed with a goldfish. And that water also has some (introduced) hybrids.

So the answer to your question is one for the BRFC to decide. But the old mantra about only two waters in the UK with true crucians has long been buried.