Origin of the word "groundbait"

What did the word groundbait mean back in the days of yore.

Now it means "piggin expensive, but nicely packed and displayed"

Is the word


or


Just an idle thought

I always thought it meant "ground up" bait could be wrong though, I usually are

It means bait that you put on the lake/river bed or as they call it in sea fishing circles, ground!

iannate said:

What did the word groundbait mean back in the days of yore.

Now it means "piggin expensive, but nicely packed and displayed"

Is the word

ground up bait​

or

mud​

Just an idle thought

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Its not that expensive anyway,if it helps catch more fish!!

........if....

Alan Tyler said:

........if....

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In certain circumstances it can help you catch more fish, if you dont need it ,dont use it,nothings cheap these days so why bother moaning about it,its not as if we,re forced to use it!!

I think it's groundbait as in the past tense of grind.

chefster, it is all a matter of perspective. If you're fishing a match and have confidence in brand "X", you'd be a muppet not to use it; if you're pestering ordinary-sized bream for no good reason, then even Vitalin is pushing the boat out a bit.

The term is originally from "baiting your ground", as Mark B has said; HOWEVER, (big letters 'cos the distinction has cost me) there is now a distinction between "cereal" groundbait (or stuff that looks like it: any "meal" that you dampen, form into balls, and throw in) and "loose feed".
When the rules mention "groundbait", it's worth asking exactly what they understand by the term...

Alan Tyler said:

chefster, it is all a matter of perspective. If you're fishing a match and have confidence in brand "X", you'd be a muppet not to use it; if you're pestering ordinary-sized bream for no good reason, then even Vitalin is pushing the boat out a bit.

The term is originally from "baiting your ground", as Mark B has said; HOWEVER, (big letters 'cos the distinction has cost me) there is now a distinction between "cereal" groundbait (or stuff that looks like it: any "meal" that you dampen, form into balls, and throw in) and "loose feed".
When the rules mention "groundbait", it's worth asking exactly what they understand by the term...

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I'm not sure if its baiting your ground or ground up bait? In days of yore, do we know of any references made historically to the river/lake bed described as the ground or is it more likely the bed?

But I can see the rule distinction in your analogy; cereal groundbait or stuff that looks like it and loose feed (micros over the top for example) and dampened... well where do we stand with dampened pellets which are largely formed from cereal/fishmeal powder? not so clear now is it?

---------- Post added at 16:18 ---------- Previous post was at 15:52 ----------

ground (adj.)
"reduced to fine particles by grinding," 1765, past participle adjective from grind.

bait (n.)
"food put on a hook or trap to lure prey," c.1300, from Old Norse beita "food," related to Old Norse beit "pasture," Old English bat "food," literally "to cause to bite"

Online Etymology Dictionary

Not clear at all - which is why it's best to check.

I'll try and find a reference for "baiting the ground", but not just yet - stuff happening.

Just a bit of speculation but, in Germany, the gudgeon is known as the groundling (obv because of its living on the river bed) - that term fell into use here too.

Could groundbait simply be called that because it falls to the ground? The bed of the river?

I would think it was originally 'ground' bait ie: soil. I remember reading many years ago of throwing sods of turf into the swim to attract fish, and even to this day 'mole-hill' soil is often recommended.

On a No Groundbait commercial near to me, I asked the owner Colin if soil was classed as 'groundbait', to him, Yes.

Here's a seventeenth century reference to "Baiting your ground", from
"The School of Recreation (1684 edition)
by Robert Howlett", found here: HOT FREE BOOKS • The School of Recreation (1684 edition) • Robert Howlett • 2

The Breame is next in order; The most seasonable time to Angle for him is from St. James tide till Bartholomew tide. He spawneth in June or begining of July; is easily taken, as falling on his side after one or two gentle turnes, and so drawn easily to Land. The best Bait for him is that (most delightful to him) Red-Worme (found in Commons & Chalky Grounds after Rain) at the root of a great Dock, wrapt up in a round Clue. He loves also Paste, Flag-Wormes, Wasps, Green-Flies, Butter-Flies, and a Grass-hopper, without Leggs.

Bait your Ground the night before with gross-ground Malt, boiled and strained, and then in the morning with the Red-Worm, bait your Hook, and plumbing your Ground within half an Inch, Fish.

There you go, then...

Good read, good link Alan with phrases such as;

"When a Violent shower hath disturbed the Water and mudded it, then with a Red Worm, Angle in the Stream at the ground"

"To plum the Ground,"

and again (possibly, the origin of groundbait?); "Bait your ground"

I'm sure glad attitudes, catch and release and conservation has changed the way we fish when everything was once taken for the table prior to the invention of the landing net...

"his Landing Hook, with a Screw at the end to screw it into the socket of a Pole, & stricken into the Fish, to draw it to land"

Really pleased you were drawn in and enjoyed it; it seems , once the customary abstract waffle about the physical, spiritual and divine wonders of angling are dealt with, to be a pretty concise,no-bull book that delivers the goods with very little padding.
Mr. Howlett, I'll be back!

I spotted the landing-hook reference, but what struck me (ex-lab technician) was the screw-in fitting!
It makes you (me, anyhow) wonder when screw-threads were standardised, and, more narrowly, when landing-nets, tackle-retrieving and pruning hooks, gaffs and rod-rests started to become interchangeable.

I know that the Doctor who was given the high-pressure job of getting an arrow out of the face of Prince Henry (later Henry V) sketched a screw-up, expanding, internal socket-gripper to wihdraw the arrowhead; even more importantly, the smith (I'd guess a top-flight armourer) was able to interpret the sketch and knock up a working (first time -no time for a prototype) device in time to save the prince (and probably the heads of both doctor and smith)! So, would he have had a set of taps and dies to hand, back in 1400-ish?

I later found a "bait your ground" reference in Walton; at some point I must trawl through the "Treatise" and see if it goes back to the beginning of the printed word; I'm pretty sure there is a mention of fishing "at ground" with one's "running line".

Such fun, when it's too hot to fish.

Alan Tyler said:

Bait your Ground the night before with gross-ground Malt...

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Unfortunate that that particular quote uses both meanings of the word ground so proves little, to my eyes at least.

I've always assumed it meant ground as in the past tense of grind but it's not something that I've thought about in great depth before.

Alan Tyler said:

Really pleased you were drawn in and enjoyed it; it seems , once the customary abstract waffle about the physical, spiritual and divine wonders of angling are dealt with, to be a pretty concise,no-bull book that delivers the goods with very little padding.
Mr. Howlett, I'll be back!

I spotted the landing-hook reference, but what struck me (ex-lab technician) was the screw-in fitting!
It makes you (me, anyhow) wonder when screw-threads were standardised, and, more narrowly, when landing-nets, tackle-retrieving and pruning hooks, gaffs and rod-rests started to become interchangeable.

I know that the Doctor who was given the high-pressure job of getting an arrow out of the face of Prince Henry (later Henry V) sketched a screw-up, expanding, internal socket-gripper to wihdraw the arrowhead; even more importantly, the smith (I'd guess a top-flight armourer) was able to interpret the sketch and knock up a working (first time -no time for a prototype) device in time to save the prince (and probably the heads of both doctor and smith)! So, would he have had a set of taps and dies to hand, back in 1400-ish?

I later found a "bait your ground" reference in Walton; at some point I must trawl through the "Treatise" and see if it goes back to the beginning of the printed word; I'm pretty sure there is a mention of fishing "at ground" with one's "running line".

Such fun, when it's too hot to fish.

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Wonderful, I do know that the Archimedian screw was made by successively wrapping and forming two reeds around a log building it up into tall layers to a thread then set with tar, the inner layer then removed to set the pitch. From where he (Archimedes) got his inspiration for his screw, other than necessity of uphill pumping water and irrigation I dont know, but perhaps the screw was already in existence and maybe his screw (for that particular purpose) was a derivative of an old concept?
His screws are still in regular use today of course with many examples found in extrusion machinery for injection moulding, boring large diameter holes into soil, as well as being used in their original form such as to draw water from rivers and canals (I think a new one, live was installed last year powered by the river Hebden?).

My own particular design process starts with the 'problem' - identifying a problem is not always the absolute 'necessity' but the journey of exploration to find a solution (hopefully better) is visualising what it, the 'thing' is that will eventually become the tool/end product. Spatially concepted initially before putting pencil to paper, because at the very early stages of design; I have no idea what 'it' will eventually look like! The arrow had to be removed and so I guess the inventor started at the beginning as all inventors do by addressing the problem by sketching as a process of exploration to find a quick solution!

I sometimes look at my own sketches in disbelief, keeping everything as Ido (I had a poor upbringing you see and hoard and keep everything) :wh looking at the end product in my hand now - its a wonder how I sometimes get there, the drawings and notes remind me though and serves as a sort of record.

But credit where credits due, Arci was a genius but my hero has got to be Leonardo! :w

goonch said:

Unfortunate that that particular quote uses both meanings of the word ground so proves little, to my eyes at least.

I've always assumed it meant ground as in the past tense of grind but it's not something that I've thought about in great depth before.

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Yes I spotted that homonym too when I read it, but I think I'm leaning more towards the overall definition of ground to mean "the lake/river bed", but confess I always assumed groundbait was a derivative of the word ground+bait as to grind up.

Ill reserve further opinion and thought and wait for Mark to read - and interpret Walton - its far too heavy going for me! (believe me, i've tried) mg:

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Alan Tyler said:

taps and dies to hand, back in 1400-ish?

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taps and dies to hand, back in 1400-ish?

probably not, but a clay mould pattern made of twisted willow then burned away into which the smithy would poor his molten metal?

I'd imagine they were after something that didn't involve waiting for clay to dry; what with the second most powerful chap in the land being in agony, and his Dad likely to want progress reports or heads.
Aha! Googled "Henry V arrowhead removal": [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8Nef1siUus]Henry V arrowhead removal - YouTube[/ame]

Looks as though the thread was made by twisting, not tapping. Wow!

On favourite geniuses: the Antikythera Mechanism seems to have been traced straight back to Archimedes; Leonardo had some visionary ideas, but what comes close to that?

A fired clay would dry fairly quickly I would think (though probably crack), but twisting a rod makes sense given the urgency!

Many theory's exist as to its place of origin, the Antikythera device but its destination would likely have been Rome for Julius Caesar.

I think everyone was surprised at the complexity of the device for its time, though confirmed the gear train is not as complex as originally thought, just one more gear missing as far as I'm aware. I remember reading someone originally thought it must be some sort of mix up with the museums artefacts dating it much later. I dont know that much about it but given a nation of scholars together with the Greeks interest in astronomy and mathematics, its was possibly made as a teaching device and more than likely made by several contributors?

My mate Leo, job title; painter, inventor, sculptor, architect, mathematician, musician, engineer, anatomist, geologist, cartographer, botanist, and writer.- a chronic procrastinator and a sure sign of a genius if ever there was looking for perfection!

Actually he conceptualised a lot (multi-talented do tend to theorize more than do apparently), I blame his employer Ludovico for running him ragged for years, yet its strange given your example of the Greek astronomical devise and what they were able to acheive, that it has been suggested many of his designs weren't constructed because of technological constrains, far, far ahead of his time as it were but we do now know that he invented the helicopter and a tank! also many more of his designs were never published/realised or saw the light of day, unlike the automated bobbin winder and other easily crafted designs, and he was also the guy to design the device for testing modern day breaking strain of monofilament fishing line! :w

Okay I made that last bit up, but he did invent a machine for testing the tensile strength of wire...

What comes close, well nothing much predates that Greek device does it Mark? but I know what Ron Clay would say.... Tesla and who could blame him for saying so, another genius ahead of his time - the inventor of 'wireless communications' and AC current!