Dumping!

Fred Bonney · Aug 6, 2013

I read somewhere recently, I can't find it though, that a guy fishing Drayton landed 31 carp all over 10lb and dumped the lead for each fish!

I think it's part of a discussion in a carp magazine on the potential problems associated with this process of "catching", anybody else see this and do you have a view?

---------- Post added at 12:13 ---------- Previous post was at 12:04 ----------

All I have to say at this stage as I am investigating more is, no wonder our church roofs are under attack!!

Assuming Drayton supplies water, is this in the public health interest?

stuart_s · Aug 6, 2013

Fred,
I have not seen that article, but I have read similar stories and seen some of this in action. While it is commendable to use safe-rigs, this appears to be a small fad with a few anglers (not most) who are missing the point of when it's appropriate to dump the lead or not. Having fished Drayton a few times, it doesn't strike me as the place where lead dumping is necessary. It's hardly full of weed and snags. A couple of waters I fish are quite snaggy and there is a risk of losing leads there, but in those circumstances I prefer to use an environmentally friendly bomb such as a Pallatrax Stonze rather than 2 ounces of lead.

Hopefully, one of the weeklies or carp monthlies will have a good article on when to drop leads or not.

robtherake · Aug 6, 2013

It seems bonkers to me; how did we ever manage to land fish before lead ejection mechanisms became available, I'd like to know. Odd fish were lost; but not much more than the average in less snaggy waters.

And who can afford to ditch sixty quids worth of leads per session? Since they all seem to be coated these days, the environmental concerns are moot, but what a collossal waste.

Peter Jacobs · Aug 6, 2013

robtherake said:
It seems bonkers to me; how did we ever manage to land fish before lead ejection mechanisms became available, I'd like to know. Odd fish were lost; but not much more than the average in less snaggy waters.

And who can afford to ditch sixty quids worth of leads per session? Since they all seem to be coated these days, the environmental concerns are moot, but what a collossal waste.

I totally agree, it is a special sort of madness.

Seemingly designed by the people who manufacture either metal or stone weights.

FishingPC gone to crazy extremes!

cg74 · Aug 6, 2013

Fred Bonney said:
I read somewhere recently, I can't find it though, that a guy fishing Drayton landed 31 carp all over 10lb and dumped the lead for each fish!

I think it's part of a discussion in a carp magazine on the potential problems associated with this process of "catching", anybody else see this and do you have a view?

---------- Post added at 12:13 ---------- Previous post was at 12:04 ----------

All I have to say at this stage as I am investigating more is, no wonder our church roofs are under attack!!

Assuming Drayton supplies water, is this in the public health interest?

I tried to investigate this some time ago but found it nigh on impossible to ascertain any kind of figure as to how much lead would/could be released into the water.

For the record Drayton reservoir is owned by the Canal & River Trust and is a feeder reservoir for the Grand Union canal.

stuart_s · Aug 6, 2013

Peter Jacobs said:
Seemingly designed by the people who manufacture either metal or stone weights.

Possibly, but more worrying is that the idea is blindly accepted by those who follow trends and don't actually think through all the aspects of their fishing. Maybe the £60 bill for new leads will make them think again. Unless of course they're sponsored by said manufacturer!

lufc · Aug 6, 2013

I've never got my head round it, chap at my local club lake was chuffed to bits when he landed a low double, seemed even happier that he'd dumped the lead tho. We talked about and he suggested to me I wasn't fishing properly when I landed fish with the lead still attached. I use lead clips and at times when fishing a snaggy swim they have been dumped which is great, but when your fishing in open water with no snags or weed etc seems a pointless exercise. People watch programmes like thinking tackle and assume that the lead clip has to be set so as soon as your into a fish the lead comes off ? Surely it's all about setting it to the obstacles in the vicinity of the swim your fishing. I can't afford to loose a lead every fish, if I loose one fine, but I certainly don't set out to loose on on every fish I hook.

sam vimes · Aug 6, 2013

There may be plenty of magazine writers, sponsored anglers and those in the trade that dump leads on a regular basis but it's not something you tend to see that much amongst normal anglers.

I'll take a guess that the Drayton angler was fishing zigs though. This is one method where the trade is desperately trying to convince the world that dumping the lead on the take is a requirement to catch. For certain ways of fishing a zig I can understand the reasoning entirely (it's a bit difficult to land a fish on a 12' plus zig on your own unless the lead is dumped). I can also understand why dumping the lead on a very weedy water can be advantageous. However, I simply won't fish a zig in such a way that dumping a lead is a requirement, not that it's one of my methods of choice anyway. If a water is so weedy that routine dumping of the lead is necessary to extract a fish, I'd find another venue.

Just because magazines suggest that something is the norm doesn't make it true.

Fred Bonney · Aug 6, 2013

I'll make it clear,I don't fish for carp specifically, so I'm not up to date on current rigs.

I note the point about the use of Drayton's water.

As I understand it, in this months Carp World there is a discussion article from those against,and there will be a similar article from those for the method next month.

richiekelly · Aug 6, 2013

I think its something that has been made popular by a certain hour long advert on sky, in weed I can understand the benefit but Drayton please its a goldfish bowl.

How long does it take for 3 or 4 oz of lead to break down constantly leaking toxics into the water?

Peter Jacobs · Aug 6, 2013

Fred Bonney said:
As I understand it, in this months Carp World there is a discussion article from those against,and there will be a similar article from those for the method next month.

Which is a sure fire trick to get anglers to but the next issue?

Reminds me of someone else who used to 'big up' a publication whenever he had some words being printed in the next issue . . . . . .

Fred Bonney · Aug 6, 2013

Has anybody spotted a link though, in the contributors listed as against?

chub_on_the_block · Aug 6, 2013

I dont think lumps of lead are, strangely enough, a toxicity risk. I could be wrong but i think you need very acidic water to bring the lead into solution. Otherwise it is inert. It would be different with fine particulate lead - the stuff you get in road run-off. It would be different too if an animal eg a swan or a human ate the lead as the gut is sufficiently acidic to bring out the toxicity.

Not condoning leaving piles of 2oz leads out there there if you can help it.

terry m · Aug 7, 2013

chub_on_the_block said:
I dont think lumps of lead are, strangely enough, a toxicity risk. I could be wrong but i think you need very acidic water to bring the lead into solution. Otherwise it is inert. It would be different with fine particulate lead - the stuff you get in road run-off. It would be different too if an animal eg a swan or a human ate the lead as the gut is sufficiently acidic to bring out the toxicity.

Not condoning leaving piles of 2oz leads out there there if you can help it.

This is a good post.

There are two aspects here:-
1. Whether you are introducing an inherent danger. My view is extremely unlikely, the quantities would have to be much much higher to even register on a water the size of drayton. Don't forget we used to have, and in some places still do have lead water supply pipes.
2. Why are there so many people who are so easily influenced? I understand the benefit of losing a lead to prevent tethering, that is a given. But to purposely eject 50 quids worth of lead just to stay in vogue suggests to me that the someone needs to get out more!

fozzie41 · Aug 8, 2013

Sorry to steer this thread in a different direction guys but if someone could help it would be great.

As some of you know I'm a total beginner in all types of fishing but carp fishing seems to confuse me the most.

I do want to start fishing for carp in the future though (including night fishing) so I have been reading as much as I can about it.

The idea of dumping lead every time I hook a fish seems crazy to me as well as expensive.

Can anyone tell me (or give me links to diagrams) of safe rigs that do not dump the lead every time. Or if they exist rigs that will dump the lead only when needed?

Thanks

Merv Harrison · Aug 8, 2013

I'm not sure Fred, (i've just looked in and i'm away again in a moment), but was it a 'point' raised on one of the FM forums a few weeks back, the Carp forum would be the obvious choice.

Fred Bonney · Aug 8, 2013

I did check Merv, and just did it again back to May, no obvious thread mate!

nogoodboyo · Aug 8, 2013

Excuse my ignorant opinions but it seems to me that there are a lot of anglers who watch shows like Thinking Tackle and then apply those methods at totally inappropriate venues such as Drayton.
I've just ripped through a copy of a certain angling weekly and didn't see a single reference to responsible fishing.

sam vimes · Aug 9, 2013

As I said before, I'll bet that the reason for lead dumping at Drayton will be that they were fishing long zig rigs. Nothing to do with weed or snags.

After the last couple of days I have fresh insight into lead dumping. I've been at the BYCAC on Brasenose 2 at Linear Fisheries. The vast majority of those fishing were dumping leads (they aren't necessarily dumped on every cast/retrieve). It's weedy enough that to not do so would verge on the irresponsible. Whether fishing such a weedy water at all is a particularly responsible thing to do is another matter entirely. Quite a few fish were lost in weed despite the prevalent lead dumping methods. Quite glad it wasn't me that was fishing it.

The bad one · Aug 9, 2013

chub_on_the_block said:
I dont think lumps of lead are, strangely enough, a toxicity risk. I could be wrong but i think you need very acidic water to bring the lead into solution. Otherwise it is inert. It would be different with fine particulate lead - the stuff you get in road run-off. It would be different too if an animal eg a swan or a human ate the lead as the gut is sufficiently acidic to bring out the toxicity.

Not condoning leaving piles of 2oz leads out there there if you can help it.

Not quite right that, water at both ends of the pH scale reacts with lead and starts the breakdown process. It's why lead water pipes were banned from use back in the 1940s in the building industry.

Lead therefore is an environmental pollutant even in water. Ergo it is irresponsible to deliberately set out to leave it in that environment. If you do the maths on Fred’s original quote of 31 fish that’s 62 oz, 3.875 lbs of 2 oz leads left by one angler. Times that by 10 anglers doing the same, that’s 38.75 lbs in one session. Times that by the spring and summer weeks, a possible 26. Gives a grand total of 1007.5 lbs That’s a lot of lead left in a season by only 10 anglers.

As the lead breaks down it will settle in the bottom sediments, some of which will be taken up by the benthic feeding fish, bioaccumulated in the body tissue and brain, leading to lead poisoning of the fish.

And just to repeat again, it is an environmental pollutant and irresponsible to deliberately set out to leave it in that or any environment.

Dumping!

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