Specimen Hunted started in the late Victorian period

Mark Wintle

Mark Wintle

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Taxidermy developed in the 18th century and became refined in late Victorians times. It's where we got the term 'specimen' from 'glass-case specimen'. As this term was around in Victorian times it suggests that farfrom being invented in the 50s and 60s it predates this era by the best part of a century. Of course the cost of stuffing a fish was far more than the average working man could ever afford but there is evidence of 'specimen' hunters from Victorian times onwards. There was little organisation behind it though the successful anglers would have publicised their catches through displays of glass cases, Fishing Gazette, Angler's News, The Field etc.and known about each other.

It's time to quash the myth of its invention in 1953!

An example of a Thirties specimen hunter is Bill Penney who caught many specimen roach and developed specialist tackle.
 
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Fred Bonney

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I think you will agrre organised specimen hunting, happened about the time ofyour "myth",Mark

Prior to that, individuals and their lackies may have fished for, and stuffed their trophies, much the same as single minded Victoriangame hunters did!
 
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Ron 'The Hat' Clay (ACA)

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Taxidermy developed a hell of a long time before the 18th century. In fact it was, I believe, practiced by the ancient Egyptians and Romans. The Egyptians were pretty good at stuffing humans!

Of course anglers have always tried to catch big fish, just as they attempted to shoot record deer etc.

But it wasn't called specimen hunting in those early days. Where the term "specimen hunter" with regards to catching big fish came from will never be truly established. It certainly didn't come from **** Walker, who hated the term. Some have said that Venables invented it. Some say that it was Marshall Hardy.

At a later stage, the term - "Specialist Angler" came to the fore. I think this is even a worse term than "Specimen Hunter".

But we are stuck with it!
 
Peter Jacobs

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"Some have said that Venables invented it. Some say that it was Marshall Hardy."

I don't recall Venables being acredited with that Ron, and really don't remember even seeing him use the term in any of his books or articles.

Are you sure this is a fact and not simply anecdotal evidence?
 
Mark Wintle

Mark Wintle

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The more I think about the more I realise that the vast majority of big fish anglers have little or nothing to do with 'organised' specimen hunting. That numbers of such anglers have increased greatly over past 60 years in not in doubt but membership of organisations like SAA etc is a tiny proportion of anglers.

I have yet to find any old references to the term applied to anglers.
 
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Sean Meeghan

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The problem is Mark that a lot of the 'true' specimen hunting organisations actively vet or even discourage new members. The single species organisations such as the Barbel Society (/forum/smilies/confused_smiley.gif) aren't true specimen hunting organisations, they exist to protect their quarry and encourage the spread of knowledge on the species.

I'll get me coat now before it gets rough on here!
 
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Ron 'The Hat' Clay (ACA)

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Sean, this was particularly true of organisations like the British Carp Study Group. You had to meet a vague number of requirements for membership, and I think the same applies today.

A Specimen Group is a totally different type of organisation. It consists of a limited number of anglers whos membership is by invitation. It has to be constructed like this or else it will not work.

A large number of big fish hunters were not members of groups. On the other hand a large number were.
 
Peter Jacobs

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Sean,

I agree with you with regard some groups appearing to discourage new members, and in fact this is the impression that a lot of anglers get from either type of group.

On the one hand the large specimen groups often appear to be somewhat of a clique, whereas the smaller specimen groups are seen as either elitist or even snobbish.

This is not always the case, in fact the Roach Club is nothing like either above description.

From a personal point of view I don't need the peer-type of group to enjoy my fishing preferring a more loner approach, or simply fishing in the company of one or two friends.
 
Kevin Perkins

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Right then, let’s just see…..

<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--><!--[endif]-->

Stab vest - check

Cricket box - check

Hard hat - check

Shin pads - check

Thick skin – check

<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--><!--[endif]-->

Application to join Barbel Society – Done….!
 
Kevin Perkins

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I take it all of the above has got something to do with being on Firefox..........

That's the second posting I've done that's been mangled!!!!!!!
 
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Sean Meeghan

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Kevin - remember to out the stab vest on backwards if you're going to join the Barbel Society!!
 
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Philip

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I could be wrong but I get the impression a number of specialist groups are nothing more than a group of mates who get together down the pub once a month and give themselves a grand name like «The north Devon carp appreciation society» or something like that.

I also wonder if some of the bigger groups offer much in terms of real sharing of ideas (but I could be wrong) …I doubt someone is going to tell you the swim they just caught that 20lb Barbel from for example, so you could argue that forums like this offer as much advantage of info sharing as some of the bigger groups out there. Going back to the original question I would agree with Mark that “Specimen" hunting must have predated by a long way the 50s. I guess just about every angler ever has wanted to catch a bigger fish than the last one so “specimen hunting” as a concept probably stated with the first angler ever ! but when the actually term was coined I don’t know.

I think many people would credit walker with the birth of the modern specimen hunting scene even if he was not the first to specifically target bigger fish. I think it was a little naive of him to say he hated the term when he was basically writing about it weekly for donkey’s years…
 
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Ron 'The Hat' Clay (ACA)

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Walker not only hated the term Philip he detested it. But had to admit that we were stuck with it.

Some specimen groups were no more than a bunch of mates. Others, werebands of top anglers who innovated new techniques and pioneered new attutudes to angling.

I can mention here groups such asthe Coventry SG, the Northampton SG and also the group I started - The Northern SG as typical of the leading groups of the time.
 
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Philip

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Yes, don’t get me wrong Ron, I would agree with you that there were -and still are- some groups that did indeed make huge progress…you mention the Coventry group which I think would be in many peoples top 10 list especially when you see the caliber of some of the anglers who were on it. However I think some were very elitist as well and you had to be part of a very select band to get in. Someone earlier mentioned the British Carp study group. I seem to remember (but someone may correct me) that you needed to have put in a certain number of Rod hours and list all the doubles you had caught for the committee to deem if you could join…talk about promoting competitive angling ! …I also seem to recall more recently some members going to press with obvious imports in their arms which I always found a little strange coming from the “British” Carp study group!
 
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Ron 'The Hat' Clay (ACA)

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It wasn't a matter of being elitist. A succesful SG would only work on small numbers.

Many people applied to join my own group, but were declined because of this, not elitism. We suggested however that they form their own group.

From 7 to 70 in two years shows how succesfull this advice was.
 
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Ron 'The Hat' Clay (ACA)

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Oh and by the way, I didn't apply to join the BCSG. They invited me to join them sharpish.

I'm not sure what the qualifications to join the BCSG are these days, but as sure as eggs are eggs, I will not qualify to join them. I havn't fished seriously for carp since the 70s.
 
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Philip

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I guess your own group Ron took a more enlightened route and at least advised people to try and form their own groups rather than just reject them out of hand.

I agree that a successful SG will only work on small numbers, maybe I am naive but I have suspected for a while that maybe the most successful SGs of all work on a membership of 1…the individual angler who goes out there and does the ground work for themselves and keeps their mouths shut with what they know !
 
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