Single legged ring guides.

symonh2000 · Oct 16, 2013

Just thinking really, I have been looking at rods and many of them have single legged ring guides.

I really don't like them personally, as I find they get bent and broken relatively easily. Manufacturers argue that using them gives a rod a more natural curve (Although I argue that they are cheaper to buy and cheaper to fit to a rod as less whipping time is needed)

Do you love them or hate them and would a rod having them put you off from buying it?

robgal · Oct 16, 2013

It would not put me off but I definitely would not go out of my way to find a rod with them. To be honest the lack in quantity of eyes on most rods these days are what affects the curve more than the number of legs

sam vimes · Oct 16, 2013

Depends on the type of rod and the guides in question.

I don't want single leggers on my carp rods. I'm less concerned with them on my barbel rods, but I'd still prefer not to have them.

When it comes to a float rod, unless it's a bit of a beast of a float rod, I'd want and expect single legs on all but the butt rings. Double/triple leg rings stiffen a blank ever so slightly, not what I want on a finesse rod. They can also make such a rod ever so slightly tip heavier. Not what I want, particularly on a longer rod.

Rule of thumb for me would be: the heavier the rod and bigger the rings used, the more I'd hope to see them being double/triple legged. In the other direction, the more finesse is required, the more I'd want and expect to see single leg rings.

I wouldn't buy a carp rod with single leg rings. Only one of the five different types of carp rod I own have singles. It's not a rod I ever use now.
I might buy a barbel rod with single leg rings. My collection of barbel/specialist rods is roughly a 50/50 split.
Feeder rods are much as the barbel/specialist rods.
Of all the float rods available to me, only the two types of power/specialist rods have double/triple rings throughout. I'd definitely not avoid singles on a proper match float rod.

mick b · Oct 16, 2013

Ive built rods from IGFA 130lb bent butts downwards and believe me its the manufacturer of the rings that really matters not how many legs they have.

The highest quality rings are made by FUJI and they are the only game in town, no-one else even comes close, and that is why every Fuji ring has FUJI stamped on each and every ring frame so their quality is easy to identify.
If your offered a rod and it has Fuji rings you can be assured that it is a quality product and not something that has been built down to fit a budget.

As an example my Hardy 13' Specialist Float has two double legged and ten single legged Fuji titanium framed rings and the single leggers are so strong you can flex them with your thumbnail and the twang when released!

The bad one · Oct 16, 2013

mick b said:
Ive built rods from IGFA 130lb bent butts downwards and believe me its the manufacturer of the rings that really matters not how many legs they have.

The highest quality rings are made by FUJI and they are the only game in town, no-one else even comes close, and that is why every Fuji ring has FUJI stamped on each and every ring frame so their quality is easy to identify.
If your offered a rod and it has Fuji rings you can be assured that it is a quality product and not something that has been built down to fit a budget.

As an example my Hardy 13' Specialist Float has two double legged and ten single legged Fuji titanium framed rings and the single leggers are so strong you can flex them with your thumbnail and the twang when released!

Agree totally Mick and having built many rods over the years there's only one ring for me and that's Fuji.

barbelboi · Oct 16, 2013

Although it’s some years since I’ve actually built a rod (and I also swear by Fuji rings) I was told by a rod maker that all rings, whether single or doubles, will soften a rod to some degree as the weight they add has a greater effect on rod efficiency than does any stiffening that occurs between the guide feet?
Jerry

sam vimes · Oct 16, 2013

barbelboi said:
Although it’s some years since I’ve actually built a rod (and I also swear by Fuji rings) I was told by a rod maker that all rings, whether single or doubles, will soften a rod to some degree as the weight they add has a greater effect on rod efficiency than does any stiffening that occurs between the guide feet?
Jerry

There's nowt as queer.

I've heard the exact opposite from a custom rod builder. He uses double/triple leg guides to stiffen a rod, ever so slightly. That's certainly what I've based much of my thinking on. I wonder how much the multitude of different rods builders actually agree on and how many different pet theories there are?

My definite preference is for Fuji rod fittings, rings and reel seats. However, it's worth looking hard at some fittings that claim or appear to be proprietry. Peel a brand name sticker off a reel seat or check rings for brand markings and they may not be quite what the makers claim (Greys SiC, Fox Sliks etc). I've seen a few folks moan about brands not using Fuji reel seats, only to peel a sticker off to find that they are Fuji. The biggest snag I've found in identifying genuine Fuji rings is in the small match rod sizes, they don't appear to have any marks on them. If the rod manufacturer doesn't make a song and dance over the type fitted, you might never know. It seems that the specialist market places far more importance on ring types/brands than the general match/coarse market does these days.

john step · Oct 16, 2013

The bad one said:
Agree totally Mick and having built many rods over the years there's only one ring for me and that's Fuji.

To the bad one.... I've asked this question a couple of times on this forum so far without a reply ..so as a rod builder do you know please.
Question. What do yo put on whippings to get that smooth professional finish. I used to buy stuff in a tube that set in a clear neat hard film on whippings but that was a while ago and now I just blank looks in any tackle shop that I have enquired in. Thanks.

adders · Oct 16, 2013

My Greys carp rod have single legged rod rings apart from the two towards the butt, many of the Greys Carp rods have this and I would put them in the mid priced to decent brand of rod

Cannot see any issue myself unless you are a bit rough handling the rods in transport etc

Wilko · Oct 16, 2013

Dave Lumb rods are highly regarded on the Pike fishing scene and he doesn't use them as standard on his custom Pike rods, "........ because I know that they don't withstand the rigours of pike fishing.....", he uses 3 legged Fuji BSVOG.

D.L. Specialist Tackle - Rods

chub_on_the_block · Oct 16, 2013

john step said:
Question. What do yo put on whippings to get that smooth professional finish. I used to buy stuff in a tube that set in a clear neat hard film on whippings but that was a while ago and now I just blank looks in any tackle shop that I have enquired in. Thanks.

I was recommended Flex Coat "Rod wrapping finish loaded syringe kit" by Chapmans of Ware recently when i was replacing the eyes on an old Normark Specialist rod (so as to match my otherwise identical one!). I used a clear varnish that came in two tubes that you mixed together (bit like Araldite!) just before using - one being a hardener. One generous coat gives that more modern smooth look. Worked a treat and each pack does several rods easily. Just need to turn the rod every 5 mins or so for the first 30 mins after applying.

Professional Rod Building Supplies - FLEX COAT

Paul Boote · Oct 16, 2013

Yup. Good old, excellent Flexcoat - what I was putting on my rods when in was in business 1984-1990, after trying Gibbs epoxy and several others. Had to import it direct from the makers in those days. Remember several calls from other famous rodmakers of the time, asking "What varnish do you use on your rods?". I told them.

Apply "Color Preserver" to wraps (whippings) first (though this can be replaced by the virtually identical Ronseal Quick Drying Clear Gloss Varnish [Wilkinsons], which, like the Flexcoat C.P., comes out of the tin white in colour then clears as it dries - even smells the same).

Then the two-part Flexcoat, with a stiff, 1/4 in.-wide Rowney artists' brush from an art shop. Must be a stiff, short in fibre length but fine in the fibre, preferably natural hair brush (Sable? I'd know the brush at once if I walked into my excellent local art shop), as the varnish is "gloopy" and needs to be spread over the wrap as you tune the wrap against the varnish-loaded brush.

You must dry the rod horizontally, and keep it turning (to stop the varnish drooping and blobbing) in warm, moisture-free conditions. Hover around the drying rod, turning it by hand from time to time, or use a slow-turning motor (disco glitterball motor from Maplins and a crude, grooved wooden rack will save you the expense of a commercial rod dryer. Good luck.

chub_on_the_block · Oct 16, 2013

Paul Boote said:
Apply "Color Preserver" to wraps (whippings) first (though this can be replaced by the vitually identical Ronseal Quick Drying Clear Varnish, which, like the C.P., comes out of the tin white in colour then clears as it dries - even smells the same).

Great advice. I missed out that stage through ignorance. The varnish worked fine for most of the whipping of course, which was in black, but my pretty little 3mm wide bit of red thread, which was a complete fiddly pain to get right and to match the other rod precisely, lost its vibrant colour becoming semi-transparent. I can live with it, but the OCD part in me is still frustrated by it.

The bad one · Oct 17, 2013

Cheers Chub you beat me to it. Agree with Paul and what he's said. Another tip to curing the resin is to use a hair dryer to speed the process up. You must do 1 ring at a time, constantly turn the blank as you warm the resin up to stop it blobbing.
Initially the resin becomes quite viscus and runny so you turn the blank a little faster to stop the blobbing, as the resin starts to cure the blob gets less and less until you get a smooth even coating on it.
Do not be tempted to stick your finger on to see whether its gone off.

It must be gauged purely on when it stops blobbing and when you think its gone off enough. Experience is the best teacher in this process. The more you do it the better you get at it.

Another tip to replacing just one single leg ring is to lightly heat up the resin with a lighter, making sure you don't burn it, so the resin goes slightly soft, the ring can then be pulled out. It then leave's a hole the ring came out of, let the resin cool and harden again, squirt a very small drop off super glue down the hole and quickly push the new ring in it. Clean off quickly any excess glue that comes out of the hole. Replacement ring Job's done. If done correctly, I defy anybody to tell from the whipping/resin only which ring has been replaced.

mick b · Oct 17, 2013

Rod finishes.
All the best results come from using two part epoxy, Gibbs (a Canadian product I believe) used to be superb, but go a little yellow with constant use in strong sunshine.
Flex-coat is superb without the yellowing problems and this is what to use IMO.
Accurate measuring of the materials is absolutly essential, warm both bottles in hot water before measuring quantities required.
The very best mixing cups are stainelss steel egg cups, mix small quantities with a matchstick, larger with a wooden coffee stirrer (from ASDA cafe).
Thin the first coat with 1/5th pharmaceutical Acetone which doubles to clean the brush.
Thinned Flex-coat doesn't 'bloop' and soaks into the threads better, and as it dries any air bubbles trapped in the thread will rise to the surface easier, blow gently on these bubbles and they will disappear.
Use a scavaged motor from defunct microwave oven to turn the rod (its the one that turns the table around, they never seem to go wrong)
If you can, rig up your rod frame over the top of a central heating radiator in a spare rarely used room, this eliminates air borne fluff and gives quicker drying times.

One last tip; Use only CP whipping threads, CP = Colour Protected (for obvious reasons)

If you cant get the Flex Coat pm me and I will give you some of mine.

terry m · Oct 17, 2013

I have no issue with one legged rod rings, especially if they are Fuji manufacture. Yes they are rather more delicate than double leggers, but then it pays to look after your kit regardless of the ring type.

To serioualy suggest that a rod builder will selet double legged rings, soley to beef up the action marginally is in my opinion very unlikely.

sam vimes · Oct 17, 2013

terry m said:
To serioualy suggest that a rod builder will selet double legged rings, soley to beef up the action marginally is in my opinion very unlikely.

That's a fair stretch further than I've suggested. All I've said is that I know of a rod builder that has said to me that he believes that double legs do fractionally stiffen an action. No suggestion that he selects rings on that basis.

barbelboi · Oct 17, 2013

Surely single guides line up better and allow the line to pass through them with minimal friction

tigger · Oct 17, 2013

Most of my match rods have single leg guides after the first/bottom one or two.
My drennan im8 specimen float rods and my Daiwa Amorphous tournament stick float rod have treble leg guides straight through. They are all fujis and are stamped on every guide...I do prefer the strength of the treble leg guides.
Saying that I have accidently bent one or two of the single leg guides but they bent back easy enough and seem none the worse for it, I wouldn't like to keep doing it though as I think they'd snap off !

Paul Boote · Oct 17, 2013

Yup. The lightest high-quality rings available and possible on best light rods, float and fly. Heavy things turn rods into "slop". Large, clunky, possibly visually impressive to some, two-leg things make little difference to sat-in-a-rest / -pod pool cues, of course, except to make better, more knowledgable fishers crack up laughing a safe distance along the bank after passing you. Fine, the mega ones, if you want want to fish in the next County or exchange artillery fire with the people dug in on the far bank whilst waiting for a take after three beered-up nights, but if you want to think, cast, move around and fish....

Single legged ring guides.

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