Preparation of powders

I read a topic on another forum where the OP asks if powders first need to be prepared for inclusion in baits?

Many shop bought powders are prepared from whole ground beans, pulses and particles without being soaked or boiled.
Curiously they are assumed to be safe and need no preparation at all. Just add them, roll them and away you go!

This is mostly obvious stuff regards particle preparation but maybe important to repeat;
Taken from one of our articles:
Nuts, seeds and legumes are packed with healthy fats, protein and minerals that fish adore, but to get all that good stuff assimilated into their bodies, it is recommended that you prepare them by soaking and/or boiling.

What happens when we soak and boil particles?
Most nuts, legumes and seeds contain phytic acids and enzyme inhibitors to keep them from sprouting until nature delivers the sun and rain that enables them to grow.
By soaking, they will take on water and begin to swell, enzyme inhibitors are neutralized, the beneficial enzymes are activated and the nutritional content increases significantly.
Without pre-soaking they would swell up inside the fish which is dangerous.
Although the boiling process has a denaturing effect, it is often a necessary step to halt the process of germination.
Boiling also helps to soften hard hulls, kills harmful bacteria and makes them safer for the fish to eat.


My point?

Wet milling is common when it comes to corn flour for example but with others, phytates and other antinutrients are still present in many shop bought powders.
I suppose it depends on ones point of view and how much you consider the attraction of nutritional baits important?

Chris, I think you're going to struggle to get much of a discussion on this one.

But here's the sum total of my understanding on this subject:
Phytic acid (phytate) is indigestible by all animals except ruminants, so I'd think in the case of Cyprinid fish species they'd simply excrete it along with all other waste?
As they have such a basic digestive system that'd be an easy task?

That's pretty much it Colin, a ground-up dry seed, nut or grain is a dormant thats pretty much indigestible and will be of little use to the animal/fish that consumes them.

Add a little water, make a mash and spread out onto a flat surface to dry and regrind and you have the basis of a very very good bait that will attract fish.
Same with our paste made at home in advance, a good mix left for a while in the fridge to soak through will be a better more soluble bait than one made up on the bank and used straight away.

I guess its why possibly as some believe, a washed-out bait seems to work better? Its also the basis of using groundbait too, it dampens the powders down not only so that it forms a ball to throw in and prevents it from floating, but it also makes them attractive and digestible for the fish, short soak time is not perfect on the bank but better than nothing.

Predigested and fermented powders however... now we're possibly heading into unknown territory for many (especially non-carpers) I imagine and who can be bothered with that anyway?

I am thinking of something of the order of a bean meal made from maybe red kidney beans where the toxin phytohaemagglutinin know as kidney bean lectin in plain English could be present very dangerous if used uncooked or only soaked . Red Kidneys need boiling for a reasonable time to reduce this toxin to a safe level.

tiinker said:

I am thinking of something of the order of a bean meal made from maybe red kidney beans where the toxin phytohaemagglutinin know as kidney bean lectin in plain English could be present very dangerous if used uncooked or only soaked . Red Kidneys need boiling for a reasonable time to reduce this toxin to a safe level.

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I think you're right. Boiling is also necessary in many cases and phytates are not the only concern and yet I have never once heard it mentioned that in powder form they could be a potential 'hazard'... many anglers myself included, have simply followed the advice of soaking then boiling whole beans nuts and so on or sick them into the grinder without any prep whatsoever.

laguna said:

I think you're right. Boiling is also necessary in many cases and phytates are not the only concern and yet I have never once heard it mentioned that in powder form they could be a potential 'hazard'... many anglers myself included, have simply followed the advice of soaking then boiling whole beans nuts and so on or sick them into the grinder without any prep whatsoever.

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A mistake made by some is to boil the beans in the water used to pre soak this MUST NOT BE DONE as this can reduce the lowering effect of the cooking. Fresh clean water MUST be used for the cooking of kidney beans. The reason they are banned on my club water is that the prepping of this bean in particular is not always fully understood by the people using them.

Absolutely! Legume lectins occur ubiquitously, according to one researcher poisoning can be induced from as few as five raw beans?? that's for humans who have a much larger biomass than a little ol fish who could quite easily eat 5 or more kidney beans... I am not sure if they avoid these things as they do other toxins (they do avoid caster beans from what I understand, ricin) but DO NOT BOIL IN THE SAME WATER is very good advice tiinker. I think boiling in the same water they were soaked in is a remnant from the advice touted about for Tiger nuts and Hempseed. Hemp doesn't actually contain any antinutrients at all but the soaking/boiling in the same water exposes the kernel and maintains there potency attractiveness of the oils etc.