steph mckenzie
Well-known member
With all the talks of Flooding in Somerset and else where, and the call for more to be done. Is dredging of Rivers really the answer?
What more could be done, if at all?
What more could be done, if at all?
Dredging - is it really the answer
- Thread starter steph mckenzie
- Start date
It has always been my dream to fish the Kings Sedgemoor Drain, it looks(looked) fantastic and far more attractive than the Forty Foot.
However what will remain of it, the levels, or the stock of fish they used to contain is now in the lap of the Gods.
This Government is determined to go against the advice of head of the EA and allow unrestricted dredging right across the levels just to appease a those who live and farm on the biggest natural flood plain in the UK.
And now our PMs knee-jerk has sent a group of Commandos down there to assist only for them to be stood down an hour after they arrived because there was nothing they could do to help.......
mg:Heaven help us of we had a real crisis!!!
.
Not a lot if people chose to live in low lying areas sooner or later nature will have her way and you will have water in your living room. I have a flood wall were I live and Have known the area most of my life . The house I live in according to the EA is safe from flooding if the flood wall broke but the houses in the road below mine would have over two metres of water in them. I can remember them being flooded as a youngster and they have been flooded at least once in the last forty years. The Somerset levels is a classic example. I would love to have a property by a nice river but sooner or later it will be in the house. When you look at the aerial photo's of these flooded areas the churches and important buildings have been built on the highest ground and usually stay dry the surrounding buildings get flooded. They were talking the other day about old properties by rivers and they were saying the reason they had flag stone ground floors was because they were easy to clean out after flooding. These areas have always flooded if you have a property in one it is the way of things and nature will have her way sooner or later no matter what you do. The costs involved in flood relief and land drainage are enormous. The flood barrier where I live cost 2 million to rebuild five year ago and it is only a quarter of a mile long. It is part off the defence system combined with the Thames barrier It is fifteen foot high and I have seen it within a foot of the top.
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barbelboi
Well-known member
Err, it was covered a few days ago here................
http://www.fishingmagic.com/forums/fm-news-feature-comments/345663-floody-madness.html
http://www.fishingmagic.com/forums/fm-news-feature-comments/345663-floody-madness.html
sagalout
Well-known member
The EA state that dredging is not sustainable, the river just silts up again with the next big rainfall, that makes sense to me. I don't know the answer because I wasn't at skool the day they taught flood prevention.
How much eco damage is done by dredging?
Why not bin the HS2, and spend 50 billion pounds sorting the cycle of drought and flood which I suspect is only going to get worse.
Although I have empathy with those that are flooded is it not a fact that flood plains flood. I thought the clue was in the name.
How much eco damage is done by dredging?
Why not bin the HS2, and spend 50 billion pounds sorting the cycle of drought and flood which I suspect is only going to get worse.
Although I have empathy with those that are flooded is it not a fact that flood plains flood. I thought the clue was in the name.
steph mckenzie
Well-known member
Err, i missed it, no harm in discussing it again, as some already have. Thanks for pointing it out to me though.
Whatever we decide to do, it has to be for the good of the whole environment and not just for Home Owners or Fishermen for that fact. Let the experts decide, that way if those in power listen to their advise (from all interested parties) we should at least be able to come up with a common solution.
As for allowing easier access to build on the flood plains, i have no objections to that, so long as we the Tax payers don't have to pay for anything that goes wrong with those said laid plans. Like Flooding. Any new builds should have to be built on Stilts to prevent future homes being flooded.
terry m
Well-known member
I am always surprised at the hand wringing that goes on during floods.
If it was easy then we would prevent them in the first place. Nature is a veritable force, and low lying lands that hitherto did not suffer seem more vulnerable than ever. For me the general consensus about the error of building on floodplains and water meadows over decades seems true. The Somerset levels are apparently a very silty area naturally, so dredging would be very temporary indeed. But dredging elsewhere to increase the capacity of silted up rivers certainly would help other areas. I cannot remember the last time I saw a dredging initiative.
As for clean up and remedial actions, our friends in the Southern States are still getting over the New Orleans floods.
Increased insurance premiums will affect all of us.
If it was easy then we would prevent them in the first place. Nature is a veritable force, and low lying lands that hitherto did not suffer seem more vulnerable than ever. For me the general consensus about the error of building on floodplains and water meadows over decades seems true. The Somerset levels are apparently a very silty area naturally, so dredging would be very temporary indeed. But dredging elsewhere to increase the capacity of silted up rivers certainly would help other areas. I cannot remember the last time I saw a dredging initiative.
As for clean up and remedial actions, our friends in the Southern States are still getting over the New Orleans floods.
Increased insurance premiums will affect all of us.
In the part of east London I live in they are looking to build 3000 houses by 2027 and most of the land available is brown site along the thames . If the main wall breached it would put over two metres of standing water in this area.
theartist
Well-known member
Would any dredging have made much difference to the wettest january since records began ? No
Will there be a knee jerk reaction resulting in unsympathetic dredging and some rivers heing ruined ? Yes
Will there be a knee jerk reaction resulting in unsympathetic dredging and some rivers heing ruined ? Yes
Tee-Cee
Senior Member
I know the last two years have been bad in the Somerset levels and whilst I sympathise with the affected folk, flooding in low lying areas is nothing new and any form of dredging is only short term and would have to be on-going to be affective .
I don't recall any major flooding in that area over the last ten years so are the last two years just nature doing it's thing??
Did the King Sedgemoor back in the early 60's BUT my memory of it doesn't throw up any excitement.......................
My mind goes back to that dreadful scene when a torrent of water raced down the hillside and flooded the Cornish seaside village (who's name escapes me) a couple of years ago taking all before it.....I think that was caused by heavy rainfall(?) but I don't think the same problem has occurred since, so was that a one off (or did they build barriers above the village to stop it happening again?)
Water is totally unpredictable in all it's forms to I don't think every eventuality can be planned for................(that's a question!)
I don't recall any major flooding in that area over the last ten years so are the last two years just nature doing it's thing??
Did the King Sedgemoor back in the early 60's BUT my memory of it doesn't throw up any excitement.......................
My mind goes back to that dreadful scene when a torrent of water raced down the hillside and flooded the Cornish seaside village (who's name escapes me) a couple of years ago taking all before it.....I think that was caused by heavy rainfall(?) but I don't think the same problem has occurred since, so was that a one off (or did they build barriers above the village to stop it happening again?)
Water is totally unpredictable in all it's forms to I don't think every eventuality can be planned for................(that's a question!)
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Dave Smith
Active member
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Perhaps all those who think dredging is the evil of all evils and won't solve any flooding problems (Mr Salter) should look to the Norfolk broads! and ask why they have no poblems with pluvial flooding??
As with the Somerset levels much of the land is at below sea level, the area was/ is classed as marsh/wetlands.The whole area is crossed wih drainage dykes,rivers!
Unlike the Somerset levels the Norfolk Broads come under its own management system the Broads Authority,unlike the Levels which come under
the (Mis) management of the EA, who are willing to spend £30+million on
wildlfe sanctuarys but is not will to spend money defending the pepole who pay their wages.
Strange Mr Salter left out a statement made by the then head of the EA Barbara Young (now Baroness Young) who stated she would like to see limpet mines put on all the pumping stations on the levels, and you can see now where we are with regard to the mentality of those who's job it was/is to manage our defence's
As we all know with politicans theres garbage, then theres political garbage
Mr Salter's was pure partisan political c**p with a large dose of green lunacy thrown in for good measure.
As with the Somerset levels much of the land is at below sea level, the area was/ is classed as marsh/wetlands.The whole area is crossed wih drainage dykes,rivers!
Unlike the Somerset levels the Norfolk Broads come under its own management system the Broads Authority,unlike the Levels which come under
the (Mis) management of the EA, who are willing to spend £30+million on
wildlfe sanctuarys but is not will to spend money defending the pepole who pay their wages.
Strange Mr Salter left out a statement made by the then head of the EA Barbara Young (now Baroness Young) who stated she would like to see limpet mines put on all the pumping stations on the levels, and you can see now where we are with regard to the mentality of those who's job it was/is to manage our defence's
As we all know with politicans theres garbage, then theres political garbage
Mr Salter's was pure partisan political c**p with a large dose of green lunacy thrown in for good measure.
chub_on_the_block
Well-known member
As a major fan of the wildlife of the Somerset Levels I am worried that the area could be ruined by knee-jerk dredging.
If the water levels in the watercourses are lowered this will just encourage intensive farming of the traditional grazing marshes and pasture lands. Maybe that is why the landowners want the dredging - theres more subsidy money in growing wheat than sheep or cows.
The networks of ditches present are vital to the areas importance ecologically - they support rich plant and invertebrate communities and are the reason why large tracts are SSSI as they are amongst the best surviving examples in Britain. Many species found there are critically endangered and supposed to be a priority for government protection.
These ditches would also be threatened by the lower water levels in the system generally and by the nutrient enrichment that would follow from intensification of agriculture if drained more effectively.
I think the flood protection of the area needs some serious careful thought - no doubt the flooding will become more frequent with climate change. Clearly the pumping capacity to remove floodwater is inadequate. I would focus on that - and making sure roads are of sufficient height to be useable when a flood happens. I wonder if it would be cheaper for individual properties to require flood resilience (and to retrofit as necessary).
The long term financial costs and ecological carnage that would be caused by dredging and improved land drainage could write the area off the map of places worth seeing. It might end up like those well drained featureless lands around the wash, great for growing parsnips or whatever but brain-numbingly dull landscape wise.
---------- Post added at 13:17 ---------- Previous post was at 13:09 ----------
They are under threat of major saline incursions every winter, but there are also vast areas of open water and marsh that can accommodate standing water without upsetting the locals. I suspect the residents are also more proud of their wetlands in Norfolk - after all they have a big tourism industry on the back of them and as you say the Broads Authority to balance interests more carefully .
If the water levels in the watercourses are lowered this will just encourage intensive farming of the traditional grazing marshes and pasture lands. Maybe that is why the landowners want the dredging - theres more subsidy money in growing wheat than sheep or cows.
The networks of ditches present are vital to the areas importance ecologically - they support rich plant and invertebrate communities and are the reason why large tracts are SSSI as they are amongst the best surviving examples in Britain. Many species found there are critically endangered and supposed to be a priority for government protection.
These ditches would also be threatened by the lower water levels in the system generally and by the nutrient enrichment that would follow from intensification of agriculture if drained more effectively.
I think the flood protection of the area needs some serious careful thought - no doubt the flooding will become more frequent with climate change. Clearly the pumping capacity to remove floodwater is inadequate. I would focus on that - and making sure roads are of sufficient height to be useable when a flood happens. I wonder if it would be cheaper for individual properties to require flood resilience (and to retrofit as necessary).
The long term financial costs and ecological carnage that would be caused by dredging and improved land drainage could write the area off the map of places worth seeing. It might end up like those well drained featureless lands around the wash, great for growing parsnips or whatever but brain-numbingly dull landscape wise.
---------- Post added at 13:17 ---------- Previous post was at 13:09 ----------
They are under threat of major saline incursions every winter, but there are also vast areas of open water and marsh that can accommodate standing water without upsetting the locals. I suspect the residents are also more proud of their wetlands in Norfolk - after all they have a big tourism industry on the back of them and as you say the Broads Authority to balance interests more carefully .
The bad one
Well-known member
Two word three times.... over population, over population, over population! Recognise it and deal with! The rest is fiddling whilst Rome drowns!
richiekelly
Well-known member
Correct every time to many people, to many buildings, to many bad decisions,
Have a think about areas near yourself that did not have buildings on them when you were younger that have now.
Have a think about areas near yourself that did not have buildings on them when you were younger that have now.
Merv Harrison
Senior Member
Dredging is not just a one off fix, it has to be done continuously. I used to drink many years ago with the lads that did the dredging around here, when they were made redundant they
forecastthat what is happening now would happen throughout the country.
And the other problem as they saw it, was farmers filling in dykes and waterways. If you think of a dyke 8 to 10 foot wide, and the same in depth, replace this with a 10" circumference pipe, there's bound to be a problem, and yet farmers around here continually complain "I can't ever remember land being this wet before, and it won't drain away", and they're talking of fields where THEY put drainage pipes in, (with grants of course), and i'd gamble they'd soon dig the drains and ditches out again if they were to get another grant.
forecastthat what is happening now would happen throughout the country.
And the other problem as they saw it, was farmers filling in dykes and waterways. If you think of a dyke 8 to 10 foot wide, and the same in depth, replace this with a 10" circumference pipe, there's bound to be a problem, and yet farmers around here continually complain "I can't ever remember land being this wet before, and it won't drain away", and they're talking of fields where THEY put drainage pipes in, (with grants of course), and i'd gamble they'd soon dig the drains and ditches out again if they were to get another grant.
nicepix
Well-known member
Dredging is not just a one off fix, it has to be done continuously. I used to drink many years ago with the lads that did the dredging around here, when they were made redundant they
forecastthat what is happening now would happen throughout the country.
And the other problem as they saw it, was farmers filling in dykes and waterways. If you think of a dyke 8 to 10 foot wide, and the same in depth, replace this with a 10" circumference pipe, there's bound to be a problem, and yet farmers around here continually complain "I can't ever remember land being this wet before, and it won't drain away", and they're talking of fields where THEY put drainage pipes in, (with grants of course), and i'd gamble they'd soon dig the drains and ditches out again if they were to get another grant.
That's a good point Merv.
Not so long ago you had a situation where five 20 acre fields were divided by hedges and drainage ditches that had to be maintained by the land owners or they faced financial penalties. Now those five fields have been merged into one great big prairie with no trees, hedges or ditches to absorb the water and prevent erosion. Much of this was to do with EEC payments whereby farmers were guaranteed a good payment for any crop whether it was required or not (remember the grain mountains?) This create incentives for farmers to buy bigger and more efficient machinery and that lead to fields being merged to maximise the crop acreage.
Add that aspect to the increased area of impervious concrete and tarmac, increased water usage due to many factors, wetter weather and it is easy to see why we have so many problems.
steph mckenzie
Well-known member
I was listening to the guy who runs the Glastonbury Festival, he was on SKY News saying that dredging is a must and they need to dredge 3 rivers to stop this from happening again in Somerset.
When questioned about the affects of water vowls and fish and other wildlife, he said, if i can recall it correctly, that the affect on them was miniscule as to the affect on, honey bees, cattle, dairy farms and dairy producers and land owners. or words very close to that.
Clearly a lot of the people who find themselves in this situation want more doing regardless of how it gets done.
No, right or wrong in many cases for the people living there i suppose.
When questioned about the affects of water vowls and fish and other wildlife, he said, if i can recall it correctly, that the affect on them was miniscule as to the affect on, honey bees, cattle, dairy farms and dairy producers and land owners. or words very close to that.
Clearly a lot of the people who find themselves in this situation want more doing regardless of how it gets done.
No, right or wrong in many cases for the people living there i suppose.
Merv Harrison
Senior Member
Why not dig out HUGE reservoirs at low level so water can be 'routed' to them so they can fill up with 'overflow', store the water, and filtrate through sand beds etc and convert to domestic use for when needed in times of drought.
And/or, create HUGE flood plains for wildlife.
And/or, create HUGE flood plains for wildlife.
This afternoons BBC news featured an interview with a farmer on the Somerset Levels, he stated that when 30cm of rain fell on the surrounding hills the water on the levels rose 8"...... AND he then said that the imminent high tide would also have an adverse effect on the drainage.
Thankfully he didn't blame the flooding on the drainage or the rivers......just the rain.
.
Thankfully he didn't blame the flooding on the drainage or the rivers......just the rain.
.