What has been the impact--

Over the last few decades of the great British carp angler on the european mainland.

From what I can make out Flight' it has kick-started an industry in France and overcome long standing traditions.

For many years fish like carp and barbel were regarded as not so much uncatchable, but difficult to catch given the propensity for most anglers to use poles. Now, every weekend in summer sees car and van loads of 'carpe de nuit' anglers descend on the lakes where I fish all armed with at least four rods each, baitrunners, alarms, bivvys and French 'bait boats' aka rubber dinghies rowed out to place baits. Tackle shops stock more and more of the type of carp baits commonly found in the UK whereas in the past propriety baits were predominately aimed at roach anglers.

Traditionally night fishing has not been allowed anywhere other than private waters where the owner has applied for permission. Now there are designated areas of public lakes and on rivers where anglers can night fish specifically for carp. It has also been responsible for overturning the tradition of eating whatever they catch. 'No kill' policies are more and more common especially on popular carp venues.

There are records dating back a hundred years relating to French anglers catching carp but they were a minority. The overwhelming number of coarse anglers fished the pole for silvers or lures for pike and zander. That is changing.

In Cyprus however, the few local carp anglers fishing the dams tend to be less dedicated and organised. It is more usual to see them hauling a double figure carp out straight up the bank using a telescopic beach caster, throw it into the back of a pick up and go home. Job done. Dinner caught.

Don't know about all of Europe but last year I went to a lake in the Netherlands I used to enjoy fishing and had difficulty getting in between the bivvies.
The local tackle shop was full of familiar brands of bait and tackle so I guess our tackle firms are reaping rewards.

john step said:

Don't know about all of Europe but last year I went to a lake in the Netherlands I used to enjoy fishing and had difficulty getting in between the bivvies.
The local tackle shop was full of familiar brands of bait and tackle so I guess our tackle firms are reaping rewards.

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It has really taken off big time in Holland, when I first fished there some 40 years ago you hardly ever saw anyone fishing" English style" for carp, some of the Dutch anglers we saw fishing for carp were using spuds under floats (and catching) so different now, I haven't been back for 30 years.

I was down at Tilbury last week and I swear I saw a flotilla of bait boats heading for London. Obvoiusly continental as they sailed up the wrong side of the river.....
What impact this'll have on the tidal Thames who knows?

As you specify the impact over the last few decades... I would say the impact has been enormous with the English anglers leading the way... but the gap is closing fast!

If you where English, foreign anglers where always keen to peer into your tackle boxes to see what you where using. Names like Maddocks and Hutchinson where widely known and it could be a bit of a problem to get some tackle items on the continent that where in widespread use in the UK. For example I well recall never seeing a spod for quite a few years in France and if you used one it would doubtless have anglers coming up to you to ask what you where doing and what that weird thing on the end of your line was! Now spods are available just about everywhere and are in common use.

The same applies for so many other items but I would say the gap in terms of tackle has closed considerably over the last decade or so to the point that you really can get just about anything on the mainland that you can get in the uk.

Where there is still a gap is in terms of bait. Fresh or Freezer baits are still in the minority with moszt tackle shops stocking shelf life readymades. However with the pressure on the fish in most venues nothing like as much as it is in the UK you could argue that you don't need a super duper bait to catch anyway.

In terms of attitudes, one thing I have noticed is that anglers are definitely getting more secretive on the continent. Where as in the past information was far more freely shared than it was in the UK, there has been a noted "clamming up" over the last few years when it comes to giving information on things like location, although I guess you can't really blame them for that !

Over all the influence of English anglers on the continent cannot be underestimated right across the spectrum...tackle, tactics, attitudes and so much more. Although I would add that i do think we can also learn a great deal from our continental neighbours too.

Philip, I, ve never fished abroad but have travelled, france on an annual holiday and have seen carp anglers many a time , often, I suspect british.
In Italy more often natives but all fishing for carp"english style".
Was it Hutchinson that started it back in the eighties or had others gone before?.
ps, thanks for your reply by the way, it sort of confirmed what I already suspected.
Strange isnt it, back in the sixties england used to get their bums slapped in the world championships by the continentals so the brits adapted their way with the pole, groundbaits etx and can now hold their own, now the boots on the other foot.Ironic !

Philip's post above is spot on. There is a brand of tackle available over here called; 'Peche Anglais' meaning 'English Fishing'. It includes zoomer and waggler floats for long range roach fishing, marker pens for line, swimfeeders and method feeders. A lot of shops are stocking quiver rods now too. Decathalon are leading the way over here for carp fishing. They have a wide range of bivvies and are far and away the best place for buying boilies and pellets. Every summer they have a sale so I make the 40 mile journey and stock up on enough bait for a year at half price or less.

Some of us will remember the way that UK fishing was influenced by the French in the 1960's after Robert Tesse and co. thumped the cream of English angling on the Thurne when we thought we were odds on to win the World Championship for the first time. That kick started the pole revolution and these days our lot are better at it then they are Now they look to UK angling for carp fishing techniques.

One thing that is really different about the French carp anglers is that all their rod pods are set at waist height They are allowed to use 6 rods and invariable they take up their full allocation, all on pods, set at waist height, with the lines tight, out on bolt rigs. They are very keen, but haven't yet succumbed to the various nuances of carp fishing methods. They obviously haven't heard about Korda's 'safe zone' around their hook baits mg:

AS you know I visit Hungary frequently and have a base in Bulgaria. The tackle shops in the cities and towns are dominated by carp or carnivore. The gear sold in most of the bigger stores in BG are dominated by British names.

Kryston,Korda, Guru etc. have massive presences in Hungary, Germany, Italy, Romania, Bulgaria, and increasingly Russia. Although from what I have seen it strikes me that most of the companies have decided to target maybe 3 or 4 countries.(not the same 3/4)

HOWEVER the disposable income for most ordinary citizens in Eastern Europe is far, far less than that of West and Central Europe - so the bulk of tackle you may see in use(outside of the bigger cities) will be old, or cheaper stuff bought on the local markets.

(My neighbour in BG goes out with a handmade cane pole and a bottle of rakia. The state he can be in heading off to fish I don't think the fishing is the major priority!)

There's some good stuff there if you look around!

NP, I well remember the Thurne debacle, yes, we were going to win the day but it went t---s up, that was the last straw for the brits and the rest is history.
I had the great pleasure of sitting next to Jaques Tesse a year or so later on the Welland, I rather think when he got back to France he had taken a swing tip rod with him:w:w:w lol.

flightliner said:

NP, I well remember the Thurne debacle, yes, we were going to win the day but it went t---s up, that was the last straw for the brits and the rest is history.
I had the great pleasure of sitting next to Jaques Tesse a year or so later on the Welland, I rather think when he got back to France he had taken a swing tip rod with him:w:w:w lol.

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Hope it was a yellow Ernie Stamford one

Regards Posh Pauls' comments about disposable income and the other aspects of fishing; it is noticeable that the 'carpe de nuit' guys as they are known are invariably young and treat the whole weekend as a social occasion. They arrive in groups of at least three or four and the first thing they set up is a picnic table and chairs. You are more likely to see a wine bottle than a flask, a plate of bread, ham and cheese rather than a packet of crisps or a Pot Noodle. They have the Fox rods and Shimano baitrunners whereas the older guys tend to fish for roach using traditional methods and more modest tackle.

One of the observations I make about the French carp fishers is that there choice of swim is governed by vehicular access and enough room for the whole group to camp together, preferably with some trees for shade. I know of many swims that scream 'carp' yet are never fished because they don't fit the above criteria.

Np, what you describe sounds similar to my watching some italian carp anglers on the outskirts of Milan, they seemed really keen and had pretty reasonable gear but there was a "just something" about the general approach and attitude to the task that gave me the idea that carp were perhaps just part of the overall experience. I dont knock that in anyway but it seemed rather differant to many of the brits approach that is " full on" for want of an expression concerning their intent.
What I did rather like was one weekend When I was walking the park lake was to see It had been "police taped" off with notices saying it was reserved for a full weekend so a carp match could take place. It was already under way and tho the park was stuffed with folk doing family stuff no one had so much as interfered with the flimsy barrier.
I made one guy know that I did a bit of carping in the uk and he bade me sit beside him and bombarded me with questions on all manner of carp issues which I thoroughly enjoyed.
He said he was a field tester for an italian bait company (name escapes me) and said I was welcome to chat the following day if I was around.
Before I left I asked him if the tape had been interferred with as back in the uk in most big towns it would like as not have dissapeared in seconds of it appearing, he just looked perplexed then said "why should that happen".
Lovely guy, looked for him a time or two since but no luck ----- shame.

ps--- Yes for sure, Ernie Stamford swingtip everytime !!!!

flightliner said:

Np, what you describe sounds similar to my watching some italian carp anglers on the outskirts of Milan, they seemed really keen and had pretty reasonable gear but there was a "just something" about the general approach and attitude to the task that gave me the idea that carp were perhaps just part of the overall experience.

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Last summer I was fishing at the big lake one Friday afternoon. I'd picked a spot to float fish for roach on the basis that it was the only swim where I could cast with a 15' rod. About two hours in a party of four French 'carpe de nuit' guys arrived complete with trailers and an inflatable dinghy for bait placement. Problem was; I was bang in the middle of the area they wanted to fish. It would never have occurred to them to split up and fish separate swims. They asked me what time I was fishing until and were obviously disappointed at my replying "8 o'clock". After a bit of discussion they decided to set up in the three swims either side of me and put the fourth bivvy and set of tackle on pods, ready for deployment once I'd gone. I decided that they needed the swim more than I did so gave way and let them have it. I can fish anytime, but it was obvious that they were making the most of 'Le weekend'.

I hung around chatting to them and watched them set up. Four anglers, 24 various carp rods and Shimmy baitrunner reels, all rigged the same with 100g weights, bolt-rigged and hair-rigged boilies on 30cm leaders. In the day time that lake is tranquility itself, but I'd hate to be there at night with all those alarms set up

ps--- Yes for sure, Ernie Stamford swingtip everytime !!!

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:thumbs:

So, looking towards the euro mainland it seems that the "Brit" carp influence as been pretty profound.
We see examples of huge carp banked by euros who wouldnt have caught them without adopting new techniques and ideas that originated over here.
Tackle companies have sprung up to accommodate new demand , and, as mentioned even (sadly perhaps) "secret sid" as even found its way across the channel so they now have the full package.
Of what I've read so far the thing I like about the continental way is their slightly more laid back approach tho considering some of the continentals catches that may not apply to them all.
One downside ( for me at least) is the use of as many as four rods which I find a bit ott, but thats only my choice.

Here you go Flight'



This is the usual set up and I've seen them use 2 other rods on the side.

The good thing about it for you old folk is that you don't have to stoop to pick the rod up

Np, HA HA HA, nice one! South yorkshire windup for sure --- like it !
So weve corrupted the poor souls as well, that pic could almost be a place I fish -- rods fanned out over 360 ° taking up swims that could normally accommodate several other anglers, two maybe but fours a no no-- deffo!
Maybe the topic of another thread tho
keep sending the pics, always nice to see
Oh, n less of the old--- sonny

the blanker said:

It has really taken off big time in Holland, when I first fished there some 40 years ago you hardly ever saw anyone fishing" English style" for carp, some of the Dutch anglers we saw fishing for carp were using spuds under floats (and catching) so different now, I haven't been back for 30 years.

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I live in the netherlands and you are so right .
All oure fishing system is based on the influence of English anglers .
well its time to come back "blanker" , we have many fishing waters , and almost for free .
I wonder that in England you pay lots of money for fishing ( day ticket ).
But we have in Holland deep respect for the British angler .

gert said:

I live in the netherlands and you are so right .
All oure fishing system is based on the influence of English anglers .
well its time to come back "blanker" , we have many fishing waters , and almost for free .
I wonder that in England you pay lots of money for fishing ( day ticket ).
But we have in Holland deep respect for the British angler .

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Always got on well with Dutch anglers, one even drove me 30 miles one day to show me a new water.

thats a good thing helping somebody .
i hope you love oure fishing waters ?