Some of the names have decided that the closed season should be shortened by a month. that it should allow fishing till may and be closed for all of May and the whole of June Steve Pope, Dave Harrell, Bob Roberts and Des Taylor all think this is a good idea. I do not all it is, is a few names looking after their own interests as usual. I am not a fan of Keith Arthur but his comment in the angling times sums it up for me " People who want to fish the rivers for longer are thinking only of themselves". The catch them while their heavy brigade will love it.
Closed season U-Turn
- Thread starter tiinker
- Start date
cg74
Well-known member
I wholly agree with a review of the current close season format, as a blanket regulation of England is to haphazard (if a rest period is actually needed).
But by simply delaying the close season on mixed species rivers like the Wye, Lugg, Teme etc (if it is needed), then it's deliberately showing preference to certain species i.e barbel and chub!
But by simply delaying the close season on mixed species rivers like the Wye, Lugg, Teme etc (if it is needed), then it's deliberately showing preference to certain species i.e barbel and chub!
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richiekelly
Well-known member
sam vimes
Well-known member
I've said all along that, if the closed season is about fish spawning, the dates are a bad joke. As it stands there's a very good chance that pike, and maybe perch, spawn before the season closes. Then you get to June and find the chub and barbel are still spawning after the season opens.
The proposed closedown of May and June would probably cover the cyprinid species better, for a greater part of the country, than the current dates. It will leave the pike and perch absolutely high and dry though.
If the closed season genuinely covered all coarse fish, it would run from February into the end of July. Then, if you were truly protecting fish spawning, you'd have to consider the Salmonids. That would further cut down times the rivers were open.
As opposed to your thinking, I'd propose that anyone wanting anything other than big extensions to the closed season, is actually acting in their own interests. It can be dressed up in any way you like, but unless the closed season is extended to cover all fish spawning, it's all just a sop. It suits some people, they think they see a benefit in a closed season and they like it. It doesn't suit others, they see the flaws in the logic of it and don't believe there's any benefit to it. Much depends on the part of the country live in, the nature of your local rivers and whether salmonids are present.
My part of the world regularly sees chub and barbel spawning after the season opens. One week after the coarse season closes, the trout season starts, including being able to fish for trout with worms on coarse fishing kit. The river gets no respite from the minimal angling activity in normally sees.
It's hardly surprising that many folks in similar situations think that the closed season is a bit of an illogical joke.
The proposed closedown of May and June would probably cover the cyprinid species better, for a greater part of the country, than the current dates. It will leave the pike and perch absolutely high and dry though.
If the closed season genuinely covered all coarse fish, it would run from February into the end of July. Then, if you were truly protecting fish spawning, you'd have to consider the Salmonids. That would further cut down times the rivers were open.
As opposed to your thinking, I'd propose that anyone wanting anything other than big extensions to the closed season, is actually acting in their own interests. It can be dressed up in any way you like, but unless the closed season is extended to cover all fish spawning, it's all just a sop. It suits some people, they think they see a benefit in a closed season and they like it. It doesn't suit others, they see the flaws in the logic of it and don't believe there's any benefit to it. Much depends on the part of the country live in, the nature of your local rivers and whether salmonids are present.
My part of the world regularly sees chub and barbel spawning after the season opens. One week after the coarse season closes, the trout season starts, including being able to fish for trout with worms on coarse fishing kit. The river gets no respite from the minimal angling activity in normally sees.
It's hardly surprising that many folks in similar situations think that the closed season is a bit of an illogical joke.
cg74
Well-known member
I do not think that the current Close Season is haphazard at all; it protects most species of fish, in most geographical areas and in the most average of weather coniditons.
That fish spawn a different times in different areas, albeit overlapping a fair bit, I see as no good reason to even contemplate different Close Seasons for different areas.
I also do not buy into the current argument that "abolishing it on stillwaters hasn't done any harm" either.
The vast majority of stillwaters are artifically managed by clubs and associations so the real or full impact of constant 12 months around of fishing on the resident stock is not possible to measure.
Rivers, (the great majority of them anyway) are not artifically stocked and only have the spawning seasons, in most years, for the stock to proliferate and bring on a new year class of fish to be there for many years to come.
Personally, I cannot see any reward, either materially or on a reputation, for catching a gravid fish that is at an artifical weight which would certainly be the case if the Close Season were to be lifted on our Rivers.
Furthermore, I see nothing rewarding at all in myself catching a gravid fish which is why I do not fish in the Close Season either on stillwaters or on the rivers.
I still get my full 12 months of fishing per annum on my license by using the Coarse Close Season to fish the fly for Trout on the Avon above Salisbury where the Coarse fish population is virtually non existant, or on my local trout lakes.
Finally, I still take great pleasure from opening day on the river. or for me more likely on a local lake to fish "the glorious 16th" with the anticipation of a youngster on Christmas morning . . . . . . . . .
PS: that the likes of some of these "professional" anglers are now making "abolish it" noises, is for me, good enough reason to fight to maintain it, as greed has never been a decent reason in my opinion.
The Law is on the side of those of us who want to maintain the Close Season, and long may that be the case.
That fish spawn a different times in different areas, albeit overlapping a fair bit, I see as no good reason to even contemplate different Close Seasons for different areas.
I also do not buy into the current argument that "abolishing it on stillwaters hasn't done any harm" either.
The vast majority of stillwaters are artifically managed by clubs and associations so the real or full impact of constant 12 months around of fishing on the resident stock is not possible to measure.
Rivers, (the great majority of them anyway) are not artifically stocked and only have the spawning seasons, in most years, for the stock to proliferate and bring on a new year class of fish to be there for many years to come.
Personally, I cannot see any reward, either materially or on a reputation, for catching a gravid fish that is at an artifical weight which would certainly be the case if the Close Season were to be lifted on our Rivers.
Furthermore, I see nothing rewarding at all in myself catching a gravid fish which is why I do not fish in the Close Season either on stillwaters or on the rivers.
I still get my full 12 months of fishing per annum on my license by using the Coarse Close Season to fish the fly for Trout on the Avon above Salisbury where the Coarse fish population is virtually non existant, or on my local trout lakes.
Finally, I still take great pleasure from opening day on the river. or for me more likely on a local lake to fish "the glorious 16th" with the anticipation of a youngster on Christmas morning . . . . . . . . .
PS: that the likes of some of these "professional" anglers are now making "abolish it" noises, is for me, good enough reason to fight to maintain it, as greed has never been a decent reason in my opinion.
The Law is on the side of those of us who want to maintain the Close Season, and long may that be the case.
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Poshpaul (Angling Trust and PaSC)
Moderator
Think I've mentioned this before. Bulgaria operates a close season on rivers and those waters that are public. However....the length of the close season varies year by year and region by region,depending on what the weather conditions have been and the consequence on the spawning processes.Bit of a pain checking the details with limited Bulgarian but I get by - the local tackle dealer speaks some English!
Environmental issues, including fisheries management, are taken very seriously in the country. The country has the most diverse flora and fauna of any European nation - a huge "tourist" draw and market. However,as elsewhere, the funds available in the current financial climates are diminishing. So the consequence in terms of enforcement are similar to ours.
Environmental issues, including fisheries management, are taken very seriously in the country. The country has the most diverse flora and fauna of any European nation - a huge "tourist" draw and market. However,as elsewhere, the funds available in the current financial climates are diminishing. So the consequence in terms of enforcement are similar to ours.
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richiekelly
Well-known member
Does it usually change much in the different regions?
It just seems to me that at one time anglers fished purely for their own enjoyment and fished for different species at different times of the year. The winter and early spring for me is pike perch and cod fishing spring during the closed season is trout and boat. Summer on the lakes tench and carp and some bass fishing. Autumn on the rivers. The year is easily filled with all different kinds of fishing and they do say that variety is the spice of life. The coarse closed season has never stopped me fishing.
sam vimes
Well-known member
Here's the snag, fishing for pike and perch in early spring is exactly what the "catch them while they're heavy brigade" are doing. I appreciate that it's perfectly acceptable in a historical sense, but why should it be acceptable to fish for gravid pike, but not gravid barbel? For the record, I don't believe that it's particularly acceptable to fish for any gravid fish. However, I don't require arbitrary dates to tell me what I should or should not be fishing for.
I see your point and it is a valid one. But I have fished to that calendar since 54 and as far as I know I have done the minimal of damage. I do not fish for coarse fish on still waters during the closed season. I do not target gravid fish on purpose like many do these days as the angling press shows some are verging on the grotesque especially when it comes to tench. I try my best to avoid gravid fish unlike many today . I am not a numbers and big weight merchant but I am not perfect to be that I would have to give up angling altogether and there is no way I am going to do that.
chub_on_the_block
Well-known member
As many rivers become less heavily fished - or barely fished at all, my attitude to a closed season on them has changed and hardly see the value in it. I would not want to target gravid fish personally and i doubt there would be enough anglers on the bank on many rivers to disturb spawning fish (well no more than other users of the river environment already do). On the positive side, a few anglers eyes could prevent fish theft - especially if there are concentrations of fish ripe for the taking with nets etc.
But on any heavily pressured water i do support the closed season - to give the banks and fish a rest, prevent disturbance to fish and fowl at this time, even to allow the fish to re-acquaint themselves with natural foods and behaviours. But commercial or club-controlled stillwaters have often done away with the closed season and those gravid carp that attain weights at this time of the year are what attracts so many punters anyway.
I agree with the points already made about the difficulty timing a closed season for the maximum benefit of very different contrasting species with different requirements and to cater for variations between localities and between years - eg cold springs some years, heatwaves in others. The March 15th-June16th was a reasonable attempt at an all-encompassing interval for coarse fish in rivers and lakes but it obviously starts a bit late for pike/perch and ends a bit too early (in many years) for late spawning tench or carp. It also goes on to long as far the tackle trade, angling businesses and many serious anglers are concerned.
The only alternative way of safeguarding fish welfare to a fixed lengthy closed season is a more flexible approach to closing fisheries or parts of them which takes into account weather and changes to fish as they become ready to spawn and identifies spawning areas that are used on a fishery. This would need to be done on a fishery by fishery basis and close particular areas for particular lengths of time (eg for several weeks leading up to spawning and afterwards) - extremely unlikely to ever happen widely. Decisions would need to be made to protect the fish that are actually targeted. If i owned my own fishery that is the sort of approach i would be aiming for - if i had the time and the eyes on the water to execute it. It would be easier if it was essentially a tench water or a carp water and the dominant fish targeted by anglers was the one i was trying to protect.
But on any heavily pressured water i do support the closed season - to give the banks and fish a rest, prevent disturbance to fish and fowl at this time, even to allow the fish to re-acquaint themselves with natural foods and behaviours. But commercial or club-controlled stillwaters have often done away with the closed season and those gravid carp that attain weights at this time of the year are what attracts so many punters anyway.
I agree with the points already made about the difficulty timing a closed season for the maximum benefit of very different contrasting species with different requirements and to cater for variations between localities and between years - eg cold springs some years, heatwaves in others. The March 15th-June16th was a reasonable attempt at an all-encompassing interval for coarse fish in rivers and lakes but it obviously starts a bit late for pike/perch and ends a bit too early (in many years) for late spawning tench or carp. It also goes on to long as far the tackle trade, angling businesses and many serious anglers are concerned.
The only alternative way of safeguarding fish welfare to a fixed lengthy closed season is a more flexible approach to closing fisheries or parts of them which takes into account weather and changes to fish as they become ready to spawn and identifies spawning areas that are used on a fishery. This would need to be done on a fishery by fishery basis and close particular areas for particular lengths of time (eg for several weeks leading up to spawning and afterwards) - extremely unlikely to ever happen widely. Decisions would need to be made to protect the fish that are actually targeted. If i owned my own fishery that is the sort of approach i would be aiming for - if i had the time and the eyes on the water to execute it. It would be easier if it was essentially a tench water or a carp water and the dominant fish targeted by anglers was the one i was trying to protect.
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sam vimes
Well-known member
The snag here, often dependant on the river concerned, is that it doesn't prevent footfall from the dog walkers, twitchers or, where permissable, those fishing for "trout". All that before you even consider those that sneak about with nefarious intent.
Most of the waters I know of, that don't enforce a closed season, where bigger carp are the main focus, tend to shut down as and when it is appropriate. This far north, that usually means sometime in late June and July, which wouldn't be covered by the current statutory closed season dates anyway. However, I've usually noted that those that choose to continue fishing, for fish with other things on their mind, are usually spectacularly unsuccessful anyway. It's a time that I tend split between fishing for the smaller species and mooching about looking to view the better carp that normally don't get seen so easily.
theartist
Well-known member
I'm guessing that good anglers on the bank would be extra eyes and ears to anything untoward going on. Times have changed a lot over the years and an April/May closed season would be less complicated and easier to explain - its not just johhny foreigner as I have met loads of UK anglers who couldn't tell you when the close season is. Most think its all year fishing due to canals and lakes being open and therein lies the confusion. I dont see any harm in shortening the C.S. but could see problems with it going completely on some rivers due to some swims being oprned up for those up to no good.
You know, there is no rule that says the only time we can go onto a river is with a rod in our hands . . . . .
Both my club and the syndicate arrange daily bank walking on the river stretches during the Close Season, so the argument about the banks being deserted for 3 months is totally and completely non sequitur.
One of the questions that I have always asked the pro abolishment side is this:
"Given the end of the Close Season, how would you handle the fact that many rivers flow through SSSI's?"
Noting that the reason that the area is an SSSI is due to the special or unique flora and/or fauna that is indiginous.
Would it be a free for all or would SSI's be granted a proper Close Season, if so then that rules out fishing in virtually the entire Hampshire Avon Valley for example.
Both my club and the syndicate arrange daily bank walking on the river stretches during the Close Season, so the argument about the banks being deserted for 3 months is totally and completely non sequitur.
One of the questions that I have always asked the pro abolishment side is this:
"Given the end of the Close Season, how would you handle the fact that many rivers flow through SSSI's?"
Noting that the reason that the area is an SSSI is due to the special or unique flora and/or fauna that is indiginous.
Would it be a free for all or would SSI's be granted a proper Close Season, if so then that rules out fishing in virtually the entire Hampshire Avon Valley for example.
sam vimes
Well-known member
That may be true, but it instantly gives lie to the whole giving the bankside flora and fauna a rest argument.
The whole issue of SSSIs is another matter entirely. I'm afraid that if an area is of genuine scientific interest, and is quite so fragile as to be under threat from anglers, angling or any other public access, it probably shouldn't be open access at all. However, it often seems that some quite insignificant areas are slapped with SSSI status for the most dubious of reasons.
There is a back stream at Waltham Abbey that has been closed to angling since the mid sixties because it was found a rare dragon fly breeds there it is still a no go area today. Involving nature studying bodies of any kind can be a double edged blade as far as angling interests go. Never report anything about unrecognised species of any kind is the best way to go if you value your angling.
I'm All Right Jack!
mg:I think that I have enough quality and varied angling to not have to ride roughshod over fragile ecosystems or endangered species.
richiekelly
Well-known member
If you don't mind me saying so that really is a very selfish attitude to take, do you not think that whole environment is to be enjoyed and if it means this place being out of bounds to angling so be it.
It is totally farcical that one can fish a lake but not a river in the close season.
What difference does it make? You can (in normal conditions) walk the banks of rivers for miles before you see another angler. I know of only one stretch of river (on the upper river Lea) which is busy daily - infact to all intents and purposes it is like a 'commercial' but on a river, mile upon mile of the Thames, Colne and Kennet are devoid of anglers! The same also applies to the G U canal, Basingstoke canal and the Kennet and Avon canal.
It's us anglers who care and protect the fisheries we should be encouraging anglers to get out and fish them! Forget the puddles get on the rivers.
What difference does it make? You can (in normal conditions) walk the banks of rivers for miles before you see another angler. I know of only one stretch of river (on the upper river Lea) which is busy daily - infact to all intents and purposes it is like a 'commercial' but on a river, mile upon mile of the Thames, Colne and Kennet are devoid of anglers! The same also applies to the G U canal, Basingstoke canal and the Kennet and Avon canal.
It's us anglers who care and protect the fisheries we should be encouraging anglers to get out and fish them! Forget the puddles get on the rivers.