Coming to a carp lake or river near you

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Canoe Wales Statement on Access

Canoe Wales statement on access is set out below. The statement sets out our position on the rights of access, the responsibilities of users, the role of Canoe Wales, our position on charges, our position on access agreements and our role in relation to access.

1 The right to use the inland waters of Wales
Canoe Wales supports the rights of its members and the general public to use all the inland waters of Wales with responsibility and pride.


2 The right to be fully supported in law
Canoe Wales believes that the law should be improved to make clear the right to use the inland waters of Wales. In the absence of statute, Canoe Wales holds that there are sufficient legal rights for its members and the general public to paddle responsibly without interference.

3 The right to access the river at an appropriate point
Canoe Wales supports the right to enter and leave the water in places where there is already public access, or where access, conditional or otherwise, is provided.

4 The responsibility to respect the environment
Canoe Wales encourages its members and the general public to understand and respect the environment when using the inland waters of Wales.

5 The responsibility to respect other users
Canoe Wales encourages its members and general public to treat all other users of inland waterways with respect.

6 Our position on charges
Canoe Wales believes that members and the general public have the right to enjoy navigation of the natural inland waters of Wales without charge. Our inland waters should remain with the parks, mountains, coast, public footpaths and bridleways as public spaces which are free to traverse for all.

7 Our position on access agreements
Canoe Wales does not endorse access agreements but will issue or endorse guidance on responsible use from time to time.

8 The role of Canoe Wales in relation to access
Canoe Wales will:
· campaign on behalf of its members to uphold the rights set out in this statement
· campaign to further reinforce those rights in law
· support members by issuing guidance for responsible use
· work with other interest groups to promote and widen the responsible use of the inland waters of Wales
· promote the benefits of access for the population of Wales in terms of quality of life,
economic improvement, healthy living and benefits to the environment

We would hope that all of these activities would benefit other user groups and the general public.

geoffmaynard said:

News


Canoe Wales Statement on Access

Canoe Wales statement on access is set out below. The statement sets out our position on the rights of access, the responsibilities of users, the role of Canoe Wales, our position on charges, our position on access agreements and our role in relation to access.

1 The right to use the inland waters of Wales
Canoe Wales supports the rights of its members and the general public to use all the inland waters of Wales with responsibility and pride.


2 The right to be fully supported in law
Canoe Wales believes that the law should be improved to make clear the right to use the inland waters of Wales. In the absence of statute, Canoe Wales holds that there are sufficient legal rights for its members and the general public to paddle responsibly without interference.

3 The right to access the river at an appropriate point
Canoe Wales supports the right to enter and leave the water in places where there is already public access, or where access, conditional or otherwise, is provided.

4 The responsibility to respect the environment
Canoe Wales encourages its members and the general public to understand and respect the environment when using the inland waters of Wales.

5 The responsibility to respect other users
Canoe Wales encourages its members and general public to treat all other users of inland waterways with respect.

6 Our position on charges
Canoe Wales believes that members and the general public have the right to enjoy navigation of the natural inland waters of Wales without charge. Our inland waters should remain with the parks, mountains, coast, public footpaths and bridleways as public spaces which are free to traverse for all.

7 Our position on access agreements
Canoe Wales does not endorse access agreements but will issue or endorse guidance on responsible use from time to time.

8 The role of Canoe Wales in relation to access
Canoe Wales will:
· campaign on behalf of its members to uphold the rights set out in this statement
· campaign to further reinforce those rights in law
· support members by issuing guidance for responsible use
· work with other interest groups to promote and widen the responsible use of the inland waters of Wales
· promote the benefits of access for the population of Wales in terms of quality of life,
economic improvement, healthy living and benefits to the environment

We would hope that all of these activities would benefit other user groups and the general public.

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What rights are they then? I see they want to pay nothing again, don't want much do they.

I see a fleet of mini subs with built in drill bits causing those little perferations that make canoes sink quickly ... :wh mg:

Who ME nah not me guv honest ....

geoffmaynard said:

8 The role of Canoe Wales in relation to access Canoe Wales will: · campaign on behalf of its members to uphold the rights set out in this statement · campaign to further reinforce those rights in law

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What a crock of sh!te

Those are not rights you dimwits, those are a list of "I wants"

F.F.S. how much longer will the Angling Community sit still and listen to bullsh!te like this?

Ye Gods!

So a load of canoesists turn up a a carp lake and start to unlaod their boats - of course the anglers present are just going to sit back and watch:wh

Where in that tenet does it say "lake" ?
Item 3 says access where there is public access, not a private carp lake.
While I agree they should not paddle on sensitive stretches of river, I think you're
over reacting, but I've never met a militant canoeist.

beerweasel said:

Where in that tenet does it say "lake" ?
Item 3 says access where there is public access, not a private carp lake.
While I agree they should not paddle on sensitive stretches of river, I think you're
over reacting, but I've never met a militant canoeist.

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Actually they say "inland waters" all through the statement, they don't mention rivers or lakes, thats the thing with these paddlers, they want access to everywhere, they don't want voluntary access agreements, they don't want to be restricted as to when they can paddle and they certainly don't want to pay for anything, want, want, want, haven't seen anything about give or compromise with anyone or anything.

What are sensitive stretches? I would suggest that if the paddlers got their way there would be no stretches that they would consider sensitive.

There are plenty of militant paddlers most of all those that run the BCU and their followers.

geoffmaynard said:

3 The right to access the river at an appropriate point
Canoe Wales supports the right to enter and leave the water in places where there is already public access, or where access, conditional or otherwise, is provided.

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Point three means this is little more than a formalized charter to the "rules" they've been applying for years. Canoeists have long believed (and put into practice) that, provided that they've got legitimate permission for ingress and egress, they can do what they like through all points inbetween.

I don't see this as ending up with canoeists on your local lake, unless they get permission for bank access from the landowner. It's not necessarily more likely than them getting permission to sit in a canoe on someone's back garden pond (even if the pond is actually a lake). If landowners are so stupid as to grant, or sell, access, they'll soon see any income they get from angling dry up. Some won't care about angling, for a variety of reasons. Chances are that such landowners either don't allow angling or already allow canoeists, windsurfers, dinghy sailing etc etc anyway.

sam vimes said:

I don't see this as ending up with canoeists on your local lake, unless they get permission for bank access from the landowner.

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Look at the Open Access thread. They now have it in Scotland and are demanding it in Wales with the backing of the Minister for Sport and the rest of the Welsh Govt. Once they get it in Wales, they will turn to England.
Please sign this: SACC - Supporters

Job done. I hope to hell it does not happen.

Theres at worst a 50/50 chance it will go through. The only reason any fisheries are signing up to voluntary access agreements is to convince wales govt that legislation isn't needed. (Voluntary my RRs, talk about having your arm forced up behind your back!). Even our supposed pro-angling river trusts are being bought off with huge payments to 'arrange' VAAs. It's like trying to stop a snowball rolling down a hill.

One of the problems with voluntary agreements is that if the landowner either side enters a VA the landowner in the middle is stuffed whether they want it or not. Canoeists won't get out and walk around the middle stretch. They'll paddle straight through it.

The fact that the government won't clarify the law does not bode well in my opinion. All it would take is one Bill to make it unlawful to navigate on a water with no right of navigation and for the penalty to come under the Fixed Penalty Scheme. Simple, quick and easy. Yet they won't commit to it.

geoffmaynard said:

Theres at worst a 50/50 chance it will go through. The only reason any fisheries are signing up to voluntary access agreements is to convince wales govt that legislation isn't needed. (Voluntary my RRs, talk about having your arm forced up behind your back!). Even our supposed pro-angling river trusts are being bought off with huge payments to 'arrange' VAAs. It's like trying to stop a snowball rolling down a hill.

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That is politics for you the dirtiest of all games . It will end in people getting hurt if it does go though law or no law some people will not stand for it.

nicepix said:

All it would take is one Bill to make it unlawful to navigate on a water with no right of navigation

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It already is unlawful Nicey. Not criminal but unlawful.

geoffmaynard said:

It already is unlawful Nicey. Not criminal but unlawful.

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Have you got details of the Act and Section Geoff? I have tried in vain to locate it and from what I understand having read some of the recent Parliamentary debates our MPs appear to be unsure of the law.

If there is a law underpinning landowner's rights to stop navigation over their water then you can use that to claim Harassment by the actions of canoeists as I have previously posted. That is a criminal offence and one that the police have to take seriously.

Just wondering if this is successful and paddlers get access everywhere what happens if they come to part of a river that is an SSSI, do they get out of the river and carry their boat ?, are they then trespassing ? how would they know they are entering such a site would they care?

nicepix said:

Have you got details of the Act and Section Geoff? I have tried in vain to locate it and from what I understand having read some of the recent Parliamentary debates our MPs appear to be unsure of the law.

If there is a law underpinning landowner's rights to stop navigation over their water then you can use that to claim Harassment by the actions of canoeists as I have previously posted. That is a criminal offence and one that the police have to take seriously.

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Oh yes. And I have Fish Legal working on it too. The law is actually very clear, to the lawyers anyway. All the 'unclear' bit from MPs etc is just rhetoric, political water-muddying in an attempt to help the powers that be to keep their heads in the sand and kick the can down the road.

The problem is that every authority backs away from tackling it because its such a hot potato, they claim it's not their responsibility. Even the police will only respond if it looks like violence is about to break out - they also have their political masters to answer to, so although they'll make the right noises there's very little they will actually do.

geoffmaynard said:

Oh yes. And I have Fish Legal working on it too. The law is actually very clear, to the lawyers anyway. All the 'unclear' bit from MPs etc is just rhetoric, political water-muddying in an attempt to help the powers that be to keep their heads in the sand and kick the can down the road.

The problem is that every authority backs away from tackling it because its such a hot potato, they claim it's not their responsibility. Even the police will only respond if it looks like violence is about to break out - they also have their political masters to answer to, so although they'll make the right noises there's very little they will actually do.

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I now about the lip service that police forces use to make people believe that something is being done about it. For years I was involved in the wildlife and countryside side of things and got little support from the senior officers. The thing that really hurts senior officers is poor statistics and that can be used to your advantage. As I previously posted; if you have a clear legal case then report harassment every time a canoeist paddles through your swim. If everyone did this the negative stats would force the district commander to take actin.

The crucial thing is to ensure that one or more of the following words are used to describe your feelings: Distress, alarm and harassed. I cannot reiterate too much the importance of these three words. It is no good claiming that you are annoyed or pi$$ed off. You have to use the magic words.

Noted. Literally.