A Monumental Blunder.

Many years ago none other than **** Walker (love him or not) wrote '' it is a mistake to revisit the scene of angling triumphs many years later''. I recall that many of us young Walkerites thought that it was just old **** once again being controversial!! Today however ask me hand on heart the same question, and I would unhesitantly say old **** was right.

There may be many reasons why fisheries deteriate, but from my perspective looking back over fifty years the hand of man has had the most significent influence. I look back to Throop weirpool on the Stour, my first visit was in the late sixties. I didn't return until the eighties (misery). Topcliff weirpool River Swale, ditto, There are numerous examples of the above.

Just recently an old friend roped me in to have a look around a carp pool we had been members of some twenty or more years ago, then it had it all, our own mini Redmire. Back then we spent many evenings there margin fishing between the numerous bushes and prolific weed beds, making some epic catches of up to ten/fifteen doubles, mostly mirrors at one sitting. This last visit however saw my friend Lacey and I staring blankly in silence. Gone were the bushes that lined one bank, in there place numerous wooden platforms,gone were the weedbeds and lilies. We turned away in total silence.Improved fisheries? Revisit the scene of angling triumphs? You were right ****, and I for one bear witness. What's your take on this. I'd love to hear.

Back in the early eighties I fished a wonderful set of lakes in Witley Park near Godalming. The two lakes that were available to fish were part of park land designed (probably) by Capability Brown with magnificent avenues of trees, and underwater ballroom and fantastic crucian fishingplus golden rudd and tench. Over the years that I fished it it was only in the last couple of years (about 1985/6) that carp started to show. By then it had been fished hard for more than a decade and wasn't as good as it was initially . Nevertheless, it was a sort of paradise.

The great storm of 1987 devastated the trees to the extent that it took a decade to clear the lakes. I revisited the lakes circa 2000. The crucian fishing wasn't a patch on its former glory with modest carp dominating the fishing. The lack of trees totally changed the landscape into open countryside and it will take 200 years to regain its glory.

Throop changed in 1972 with the straightening of the river above the weir and the bypassing of the old weir (now in urgent need of repair) by the new weir. The old pool still has some good fish but not salmon or barbel - more likely roach, perch or bream with a chance of carp or tench. The lower Stour generally has recovered from the drastic dredging of the 60s and 70s though the big roach fishing is still being hit very hard by cormorant predation.

That sounds like something from a Chris Yates book, Mark? Must be the same lake?

re: the Stour. I understand that dredging is taking place again on Beat 3? I don't know the area but it seems sad if this were the case.

**** was, in this case resoundingly wrong!!!!!!!............I have had success on waters and moved on, later fish in the "oh my gawd" bracket were landed when i often passed them by because i had "been there".

Always have an open mind!

Paul, that may well be your personal experience, but it does not represent the vast majority who I have spoken to over these last dozen years. For every example you offer up in evidence of Walker being wrong, I, and I suspect many more on here will have evidence of many, many more to the contrary. On this particular point **** was not wrong!

One swallow does not make a summer, but a whole flock does!!

Sorry Derek but i think he was wrong on this one..........waters change, a pike water left alone for 20yrs etc will be a "new" water to someone returning........rivers change too, take the Severn of the 50's to the Severn now.

Revisiting old hunting grounds can be very rewarding.

I like watching my swallows.......theyh come back year after year /forum/smilies/smile_smiley.gif

I sort of see it from both sides. I think Paul has a point that places can “rejuvenate” if left alone and I know a few waters were once a big known fish has died and the crowds move on they get a chance to “breath” again. Also I will give a little plug to the EA here too as I can think of a couple of little rivers that were on the point of drying up due to water abstraction but have been born again due to their efforts and that of the locals.

On the other hand I can think of many (many!) occasions were I have been so disappointed to see what has happened. I rarely give specifics but I will here. Anyone know the Roman Villa Lake at the famous Darenth complex? It’s the one right by the club house…the featureless muddy trench without a single blade of grass, tree or any vegetation of any kind surrounding its cut with a ruler rectangular bank and filled with murky coffee colored water and resembles a rain filled hole on a building site.

Well I used to fish that lake as kid long before Darenth got it. It was over grown, trees, Reeds gin clear water, you could watch tench drifting in an out of the thick green weeds and there were a couple of big Pike in there too. I went to look for it again a few years ago and I could not find it then suddenly it dawned on me that the muddy quagmire I was standing next to was in fact the lake. Honestly, if you had dropped a bomb on the place it would have made less mess and just to rub salt in the wounds they wanted about 10 quid to fish it too…I used to fish it for free! I don’t know if it’s still the case…I refuse to go back, perhaps a blade of grass has sprung up somewhere now…

Paul,I agree absolutely with regards to pike waters,except that it doesn't take 20yrs to recover, five will restore it somewhat almost to what it was. I have been keeping carefull note with the help of friends to determine how long some of these legendary pike waters can sustain the pressure from a band? of highly skilled pikers, before the quality (huge fish) begin to show signs of deteriation. I think few would dispute nowadays that four to five years is within that time frame, despite what a few eternal optimists with agenda's would try to have us believe.

I take your point about rivers Paul, although the time frame for recovery will vary, take the upper Ouse. But some still waters seem to recover from a general perspective. Three of my local waters, two of which are large, have been ruined beyond repair by what was called bankside maintainance and recurring pollution. The idylic surroundings we long for (I hope) are still being raped- so I guess we'll just have to disagree on this Paul.

But thanks for the input. Regards Derek.

I got up this morning.........monumental blunder

I agree with Paul on this one , "fish (of all species) thrive on neglect ". Derek , I'm sure I don't have to remind you of the Thurne back in the early eighties , only one thing assisted matters there , and that was neglect .......... those that returned , were rewarded "heavily ".

Andy.

<blockquote class=quoteheader>Mark Wintle (ACA) wrote (see)</blockquote><blockquote class=quote>

Back in the early eighties I fished a wonderful set of lakes in Witley Park near Godalming. The two lakes that were available to fish were part of park land designed (probably) by Capability Brown with magnificent avenues of trees, and underwater ballroom and fantastic crucian fishingplus golden rudd and tench.

Throop changed in 1972 with the straightening of the river above the weir and the bypassing of the old weir (now in urgent need of repair) by the new weir.</blockquote>


Totally agree with Mark, Witley Park was a piece of paradise, not only a good place to fish but somewhere with a character and charm not found in too many places.

I was devastated in the late 60's and early 70's when the Stour above Throop was "improved" as the areas around Redhill/Muscliff/Parley were changed for ever. To those thatknew, the long walks were well worth it for the roach, dace, chub and barbel (but of course "no barbelabove Throop Weir mate").

As a matter of current interest, the EA will shortly be repairing the sluices ofthe Old Weir at Throop Mill and will be "dredging" the stretch immediately below the New Weir. Get in there now folks, it may be soon be too late (or will it be "improved" again?).

The EA are already doing some pretty drastic "repair work" on lower Throop Beat 3, dumping a load of gravel on the edge of the golf course and carrying out "remedial work" on the bank. It doesn't look pretty at the moment but maybe in another 20 years?! After all, where the river now flows is nowhere nearwhere it used to flow!

Natural regeneration of waters is a done deal. Take away the bankside pressure and nature readily takes charge. It's MAN MADE pressures which nature finds hard to cope with. In no particular order (as everyone will have their own 1, 2, 3 ..etc): water abstraction which has dried up or drastically reduced water flows on many rivers and streams,pollution, cormorants, river 'improvement' schemes (yeah, right), irresponsible behaviour by so called anglers, noise, litter and the dreadful expansion of muddy pools which have, in some cases, been created out of exisitng natural lakes and ponds which should have been left alone.

Bankside 'maintenance' is a misnomer. Many banks are maintained to ensure ease of fishing and, on commercials, to reduce the chance of an overhanging bush or tree being festooned with pole floats and elastic. Sure, we need somewhere to sitbut to scalp the bankside is not necessary.

I did return to an old river I was fond of in my growing up years. The River Slea in the late 60s used to be a beautifully clear fast flowing river as it ran through the town of Sleaford. It was full of rainbow and brown trout and was accounted a reasonable chub river lower down. It's upper reaches upstream of the town are now dry and devoid anything resembling a flow. Over abstraction is blamed.

Monumental Blunder Derek? Add Bloody Disgrace as well.