The Pinnacle

Ron 'The Hat' Clay (ACA) · Sep 6, 2008

I realise that on starting this thread I am on shaky ground, but what the hell, let's see what you think.

Throughout my life I have wondered why fly fishing, has by many, been elevated to the pinnacle of the piscatorial art. Evennon-anglers have oftenrevered the fly fisher with his little box of fur and feather beguiling the wily trout. Why, it was even thought years ago that only men of aristocratic blood could ever possess the ability to cast the tiny weightless object that we call an artificial fly.

"It is the ultimate deception between man and a wild animal" say many.

and of late: "Fly fishing is the most fun a man can have stood up!"

I have tended to consider the following lines, I certainly recite them to myself when I am out fly fishing:

"In my family, there was no clear line between religion and fly fishing."

and:

"As a presbyterian, my father believed that man by nature was a damn mess. And that only by picking up on God's rythms were we able to regain power and beauty. To him, all good things, trout as well as eternal salvation come by grace. And grace comes by art. And art does not come easy."

Norman Maclean

But I with temerity will add:

"And fly fishing is art."

But what do you think?

Wobbly Face (As Per Ed) · Sep 6, 2008

Must remeber Ron that years ago it was the aristocracy and the church that had sway over the masses and land where the rivers and lakes were that held the trout and salmon.

I don't think the true art is in the casting but in the making of a fly. Fur and feather, thread and tinsel, yet it represents a living insect that trout eat. Thats deception.

Ron 'The Hat' Clay (ACA) · Sep 6, 2008

But it still has to be presented to the fish.

When I talk fly fishing I am talking about the whole thing, not just the casting of the fly but the tying and innovating that goes with it.

I think a better term than representing, is suggestingsomething that the trout eats.

There was a time in the north of England when salmon and trout were not scarce at all, even amongst the common folk. In fact it's said that the common folk used to complain about being fed salmon. This I can see in the north of England, not in the south.

Wobbly Face (As Per Ed) · Sep 6, 2008

I think it is a craft. One that can learnt.

I'd like to know who came up with the method in the first place. The use of an angle to cast a flyee. Not the most economical way to fish.

Then there was the preparation of silk line, horse hair leader and then the fly itself. Plus the craft of making the rod and reel. Could it have been the work involved in preparation coupled with the gentry and church that put fly fishing at the top?

Ron 'The Hat' Clay (ACA) · Sep 6, 2008

No way.

Fly fishing as far as we know it goes back 5000 years to the ancient Macedonians.

In the right skilled hands, fly fishing is a very effective art. The very act of casting a fly gives tremendous satifaction, especially if a good fish is the result.

"O Sir doubt not that angling is an art, is it not an art to decieve a trout with an artificial fly?"

Isaak Walton

"If fishing is like religion, then fly fishing is high church."

Tom Brokaw

One thing that is for sure, fly fishers are incredibly passionate about what they do.It has been said that more books have been written about fly fishing than any other angling discipline and more fly fishers read books than all the other types of angler put together.

Coupled with the fact that fly fishing in the world, especially The USA, Australia and New Zealand, is undergoing tremendous growth.

Big Mad G · Sep 6, 2008

I WOULD ALSO LOVE TO KNOW WHO CAME UP WITH THE METHOD OF FLY FISHING.

FOR ME, THE "ART" IS NOT ONLY PRESENTING OR INDEED SUGGESTING A WELL TIED AND PROPER SIZED FLY. ITS THE WAY THE FLY IS FISHED. EACH FLY IMITATES A LIVING INSECTTHAT MOVES THROUGH THE WATER DIFFERENT TO ANOTHER. SHURELY THE TRUE ART IS TRYING TO PERFECT THIS-THEREFORE PERSUADING THE FISH TO TAKE THE FLY U ARS PRESENTING TO IT, RATHER THAN THE ONE BEING SLAPPED ON THE WATER BY THE JAMMY SOD OR IDIOT NEXT TO YOU./forum/smilies/tongue_out_smiley.gif

Wobbly Face (As Per Ed) · Sep 6, 2008

5000 years ago, did they airealise line with artificial fly on the end?

Or was it a long stick with thread and live insect tied on?

They used the word ART a lot in bygone days, Hence, The Art of Fly Fishing.

The Art of Catching a Fish with A Fly.

The Art of Deceiving A Fish With A Fly.. So it stuck.

Ron 'The Hat' Clay (ACA) · Sep 6, 2008

One has to be aware of the difference between an art and a craft.

In flytying the craft is to physically put the fly together to make it look like it should. The art is to design the fly to suggest the animal you are imitating.

Beguiling the fish into taking your fly is an art form. Putting the equipment together is a craft. It's like the difference between an architect and a stone mason or brick layer.

Fly fishing when you are involved with all its disciplines is a combination of art and craft.

Peter Jacobs · Sep 7, 2008

"In fact it's said that the common folk used to complain about being fed salmon. This I can see in the north of England, not in the south."

I have no idea where you get this gem from Ron.
I believe I have even shown you a sample farm workers contract, from the early 1800's, on the estates on the Avon, Itchen and Test where the landlord undertakes not to feed his employees Salmon more than 3 times a week.

As you know, I spend a lot of my fishing time with a fly rod, but I wouldn't go to the extremes of description that you appear to be doing here.

Is deftly casting a fly anymore of a 'craft' than equally deftly dropping a link ledger right underneath an overhanging tree on the far bank where a wily old Chub is the quarry?

I certainly don't see much of a 'craft' in casting a dogknobbler on an overstocked reservoir after daft stocked trout, and certainly not when compared to the finer craft of fishing a stickfloat, or a waggler on a river after wild and natural fish!

Ron 'The Hat' Clay (ACA) · Sep 7, 2008

Ah , a few bites at last!

The rivers Tweed, Wear, Tyne, Eden and Esk probably had a far greater run of salmon than all the southern rivers put together; its certainly the same today.And I doubt if there were many fish in the Thames in the early 1800s. The river was polluted to hell. And the rivers Avon, Itchen and Test are nearly as far away from Londodn as many of the northern rivers. I was referring to London when I mentioned "south". I do apologise if I mislead anyone.

There is of course a great deal of skill involvedin castinga bait to a crafty old chub. By crikey I've doneenough of it in my life.

Casting "Dog Nobblers" to daft rainbows. I have never done that in my life and on the waters I fish if youcast dog nobblers you blank - seriously!

And certainly I consider trotting for roach one of the highest forms of angling art, but one mustrecognise one particular fact,trotting is invariably done with real food for bait, not an artificial creation of fur, feather and tinsel.

Alan Tyler · Sep 7, 2008

Imitation hemp, fake corn, "mystic"...

Ron 'The Hat' Clay (ACA) · Sep 7, 2008

Isn't it incredible, matchmen ban imitation baits, something I have never been able to understand.

A friend of mine fishes a plastic bead on the hook when he fishes with hemp.

Catches loads of fish, and years ago he won a match on the Trent using the method.

It wassubsequently banned of course. Perhaps the tackle dealers selling maggots had a vested interest in banning artificial baits.

Donald Bain · Sep 7, 2008

Why is flyfishing linked only to trout and salmon?

I use my fly gear mainly for coarse fish, especially roach, rudd and carp!

Brilliant way to get them off the top or near to the surface!

Good point made here Ron!

Tight Lines,

Don

Wolfman Woody · Sep 7, 2008

"When I talk fly fishing I am talking about the whole thing, not just the casting of the fly but the tying and innovating that goes with it."

- & -

"In flytying the craft is to physically put the fly together to make it look like it should. The art is to design the fly to suggest the animal you are imitating."

Not necessarily with salmon fly fishing though. The salmon, after being in the river a couple of days at most, does not eat and take a fly or spinner purely because it is something that has annoyed the salmon or invaded it's river space. So why there are certain fly patterns for salmon really beats me.

Ron 'The Hat' Clay (ACA) · Sep 7, 2008

Peter Jacobs wanted to know where I got the "gem" about feeding salmon more than 3 times a week to workers.

Well there is a stretch of the River Don in Sheffield between the famous Wicker Arches and Attercliffe which today isstill called "Salmon Pastures". This was a length of river so named because of the amount of salmon that used tospawn there.Steelworksbosses used to net salmon from the Don to feed to their apprentices.

Around about 1856, a number of reports where made in local Sheffield newspapers about this "aborhant" practice.

Of course by the turn of the century, the Don was so grossly polluted that nothing lived in it. It's a different story today of course as trout, grayling and coarse fish are much in evidence along the city stretches of the river.

Maybe one day salmon will again swim this hallowed stream. I would love to be alive to see it.

slime monster · Sep 7, 2008

re match bans on artificial bait,..one reason was to deter anglers catching pike this way where pike would count at the weigh in, a common ploy was to make a small imitation fish by wrapping silver paper around a large hook shank as for artificial hemp etc i am not sure why these bans were introduced.

Ron 'The Hat' Clay (ACA) · Sep 8, 2008

Why is fly fishing only connected to trout and salmon?

WellI have caught over 40 species of fish on the fly.

Gary Dolman · Sep 8, 2008

Elitism again Ron?

Why is it more laudable to watch an expert dry fly fisherman, like this Jardine guy I have watched on Keith Arthur's programme on Sky, than to watch an expert river fisherman trotting a bait?

Both are masters of their "art" and a delight to watch, and I have watched excellent demonstrations at county and tackle shows, and been suitably impressed at some peoples expertise.

But it doesn't take away from the simple expedient that trout are so greedy that you have to make it difficult for yourself, to give them a chance, as the majority only get caught once. If it were not for the gullibility of trout,fluff flinging would have died out, except as an occasional novelty years ago.

Colin North, the one and only · Sep 8, 2008

There have been a few pinnacles in my fishing career, but one of the most memorable would have to be when I fished with Peter Thomas at Draycote, inan international qualifier, where we had a brilliant days fishing, and both of us qualified for the International Team, with Peter fishing the Spring International at Chew, and me fishing the Autumn International fished in Orkney.

Then I suppose the actual competition on Orkney (Steness) was equally memorable, where I masde lots of new friends.

Ron 'The Hat' Clay (ACA) · Sep 8, 2008

Of course we flay fishahs are elitist what?

We certainly do not want to be associated with a mob of beastly coarse fishahs!

Filthy maggots and horrid worms. Why these fellows don't even have a decent single malt in their hip flasks. In fact they don't even carry hip flasks!

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