Non migrating trout

crazy_crab · Apr 21, 2014

I went non migrating trout fishing today at River Thames, Chertsey Bridge, no wonder fishing is in such a state, people keep telling me I am fishing out of season, there are no trout in this river, how do they know, have they fished for them, calling the police, EA, most of these were fisher-persons, as I ask them did they have a fishing licence and wot did it say in the top left hand corner, non of them new, I spent more time telling people to go read the rules and regs and leave me alone then I did fishing, I was out for 6hrs, I was light lure fishing as per page 6, par 9, of the fishing regs for this area, ps, did'nt catch any, but had a good day,

john step · Apr 21, 2014

I don't know if there are that many trout in the Thames but I did actually catch one in the weir at Chertsey some years ago. It was tagged and released by The Thames Conservers (or similar name) I released it and sent the tag off as requested for which I subsequently received a postal order for £2!!
I am not surprised you were challenged though as it must be pretty unusual to trout fish there.
I fished at Molsey Weir once and saw the Environment staff taking large fish from a trap before weighing, tagging and releasing them. At the time I thought they were salmon but I now think they were sea trout as I found a dead one later in the day. This would have been in the 80's.

peter crabtree · Apr 21, 2014

Are you this CRAZY CRAB?
http://www.fishingmagic.com/forums/match-fishing/140592-lower-thames-championship-today.html

crazy_crab · Apr 22, 2014

peter crabtree said:
Are you this CRAZY CRAB?
http://www.fishingmagic.com/forums/match-fishing/140592-lower-thames-championship-today.html

afrade so Peter, the one who put you in a bad fishing location on Thames match

---------- Post added at 08:30 ---------- Previous post was at 08:25 ----------

john step said:
I don't know if there are that many trout in the Thames but I did actually catch one in the weir at Chertsey some years ago. It was tagged and released by The Thames Conservers (or similar name) I released it and sent the tag off as requested for which I subsequently received a postal order for £2!!
I am not surprised you were challenged though as it must be pretty unusual to trout fish there.
I fished at Molsey Weir once and saw the Environment staff taking large fish from a trap before weighing, tagging and releasing them. At the time I thought they were salmon but I now think they were sea trout as I found a dead one later in the day. This would have been in the 80's.

they still do it John, I think it is £10 now, but it is all change at molsey wier, they are doing it up and changing the water trap, so do not no how they are going to cheack it now

rubio · Apr 22, 2014

What makes you so sure they are NON-migratory trout?
Caught several myself in the past, further downstream but there is access to migrating fish way up the thames, even if only 3/4 times each year.

guest61 · Apr 22, 2014

I fish local rivers for trout on spinners, have had moans from match guys before saying I'm fishing out of season

mg: think just a misunderstanding though as they are not really caught during matches

One thing worth noting though... had a chat with another lure angler who was approached by EA officer, potential fine as salmon was mentioned. Coarse license is non migratory only , EA take this seriously and will dish out big fines. Tread carefully if approached ! Get your facts right and make sure you know the rules regs and by laws

If you are likely to catch non target species it's not worth the hassle

crazy_crab · Apr 23, 2014

I glad someone else is getting a hard time as well as me, because of anglers who do not know the rules and regs about fishing for non migrating trout, I also spoke to the EA 2 years ago about it, I tried to get written permission so that i could go minnow fishing, and use as bait , but they very kindly told me to wind me neck in, fly fish or small lures/spinner only and use a light weight trace, I also got told by fisherman that there are no trout in the Thames an that I am really fishing for chub, perch, pike and off couse zander, and that I am giving fishing a bad name,

Peter Jacobs · Apr 23, 2014

crazy_crab said:
I also got told by fisherman that there are no trout in the Thames an that I am really fishing for chub, perch, pike and off couse zander, and that I am giving fishing a bad name,

So, over these past couple of years then, just how many non migratory Trout have you managed to catch?

Jeff Woodhouse · Apr 23, 2014

crazy_crab said:
I also spoke to the EA 2 years ago about it, I tried to get written permission so that i could go minnow fishing, and use as bait , but they very kindly told me to wind me neck in,

They were wrong to do so, without good reason (and it must be very good indeed) they cannot stop you applying for and granting a licence to trap minnows and fish them. I know someone who has just done that and got the licence - and he's an EA enforcement officer!

PM me and eventually I will be able to forward you the application form.

You must also get hold of the book, At The Tail Of The Weir, by Patrick R. Chalmers. He speaks of trout running 6lbs and one rumoured to be 12lbs in the fishery just below ours!!! Thames trout do respond to spinning in the early months of the season, it is the best way. Later, minnows work well, but the best (and you'd have to wait until the full coarse season) is a bleak mounted on a Thames Flight and spun through the water, but only Albert E Hobbs could mount them properly every time! You enjoy your sport and let me know (PM me) if you catch a good one! Avoid fly fishing as you would probably only catch chub, Thames trout do not rise to the fly, or at least I never caught one on the fly in three years of trying.

rubio said:
What makes you so sure they are NON-migratory trout?

Thing is to return everything you catch therefore no harm is done. There will always be bycatches of other species whatever you use. No one can charge you with a crime so long as your intention is to catch non-migratory trout - and you have the permission of the fishery owner, of course.

reeds · Apr 23, 2014

Peter Jacobs said:
So, over these past couple of years then, just how many non migratory Trout have you managed to catch?

Yes that was my first thought too, would be interesting to know. Also how many perch, pike and chub over the same period?

You are certainly within the letter of the law - I know someone who does something similar on a different river, but (privately at least) he knows exactly what he's doing, and it's not fishing for salmonoids.

I'd have thought if you were after trout, the Thames tributaries around your area would be a much better bet. I used to get a few brownies from the Wey on the fly.

jack sprat · Apr 23, 2014

In the days of 'At the Tail of the Weir' the old Thames Conservancy stocked tens of thousands of trout every year, which may have helped a little!

crazy_crab · Apr 25, 2014

Peter Jacobs said:
So, over these past couple of years then, just how many non migratory Trout have you managed to catch?

non yet, as i have only been out once, I have only just got the prober fishing equipment to go non migrating trout fishing, ie a 6/7 fly rod/reel, line, flys, small spinner rod/reel witch i got from the big one this year, plus some very small spinners/rubber lures and fine wire traces, I was advised to use fine traces by the EA

Jeff Woodhouse · Apr 25, 2014

jack sprat said:
In the days of 'At the Tail of the Weir' the old Thames Conservancy stocked tens of thousands of trout every year, which may have helped a little!

It would help if they did that again, Jack. The trout is a forgotten specie in the Thames and when you think of all the £millions that was wasted on trying to reintroduce salmon with salmon ladders and such, far more could have been done for trout and coarse fish generally.

-------------------------------------------------------

Please note everyone, the EA has archived a lot of the information from its old website and is moving to the new Gov.UK site. Unfortunately, the bit that reads
-
South-east of England

You can only use artificial fly. In the Thames area, you can apply for permission from the Environment Agency to also use minnow caught in a minnow trap if used on the same waters.

Is incorrect, you can still fish with lures (doesn't say how big either), I've had this cleared with the Team Leader of Thames West Area, no byelaws have been changed (that would probably have needed a consultation anyway). He has notified the "digital team" so that it can be rectified.

It is important that YOU MUST NOT use a keepnet - and -
YOU MUST obtain the permission of the fishery owner/lessee.

reeds said:
Also how many perch, pike and chub over the same period?

You can't pin a notice on your lures stating "Trout Only". There always will be bycatches - for example when fishing the Lower Itchen for grayling in November, how many have caught out of season brownies and even salmon? So long as you return them there's no harm done.

I hope all this helps. Be good also if photographs were taken of any trout caught and reported to their local EA fisheries people.

reeds · Apr 25, 2014

I know you can't deter other predators from taking your lure, the point was that when the other (coarse) species hugely outnumber the trout and you're fishing in a public place in the coarse closed season, you should probably expect some flak, even if you're not doing anything illegal!

Paul Boote · Apr 25, 2014

From a man who purposely fished big, middle and lower middle river, Thames Trout (had four of them, largest 6-15; moved a total "F-me" giant that never hooked up) over two, full, on a lot of the river in a boat and on foot, spring seasons in the late 1990s and in the early 2000s: careful fellas, I see a total ban on all out of the Coarse Close Season Thames fishing by way of a response from the powers that be if a few backdoor lure-fishers become many.

rubio · Apr 25, 2014

Can anyone please explain to me how come these trout can be perceived as non-migratory in a river?
Or is it purely a Thames by-law?

thames steve · Apr 25, 2014

rubio said:
Can anyone please explain to me how come these trout can be perceived as non-migratory in a river?

They can't, as any trout caught now could be migrating. Fishing for them under the guise of targeting non-migratory trout only is ridiculous.

Trout migrate up the Thames from March and continue thru till at least late October, so any trout being fished for in the close could well be migrating and therefore a salmon and trout licence is required.

Any anglers using the loophole to fish for 'non-migratory trout' on a coarse licence is out of order and deserve all the grief they get. That's leaving aside the fact they'll be 'accidentally' catching coarse species.

jack sprat · Apr 25, 2014

Apart from trout stocked in the past there are several sources of non-migratory trout in the Thames. Several of the chalk streams that flow into the Thames still have breeding populations of brown trout; the Kennet, Pang, Windrush are just three of many. The law is an ass as far as non-migratory [brown]/migratory [sea-] is concerned as they are genetically identical. Brown trout breed a very small percentage of migratory trout and vice versa; it's a survival strategy that is shared with rainbow trout so that if a river is wiped out it can be re-populated. So define 'migratory trout'; I once put this to a senior figure in the EA and he couldn't answer it. Then he backtracked and said that it could be 'proved' a trout was migratory by the presence of strontium or some such other isotope from feeding in the sea - I hope all anglers can test for this ! - before admitting it is just to raise more revenue and that if it ever were tested fully enough would fail in court. Likewise define what licence you need for a salmon x brown trout, a fish that is rare but does exist.

I have legally lure fished on the Dorset Stour in May where the club allowed it (many years ago). There were trout about, not many, so that in the main I caught pike and odd chub; think I only ever had a couple of follows from trout and in the end decided that I could wait. Later when stillwaters became available in spring I stopped bothering.

Non migrating trout

crazy_crab

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