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This is a dedicated thread for discussing article: The Future is Bright for Yorkshire Salmon
The Future is Bright for Yorkshire Salmon
- Thread starter FishingMagic
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Where are these salmon going to come from and when?
Given that there hasn't been any migration into the river - and resultant spawning - for nearly 40 yrs, where are the salmon to know that they can migrate up the Derwent?
Will there need to be extensive replenishment with fry/parr/fertilised eggs to create a 'native' population to perform the 'outward leg' of migration first?
Who is funding that? How much will it cost? Can we have assurances that this will not deplete the current fisheries budget for the area?
Sorry - but this is yet another poor quality article from the FishingMagic pen - revolving round an uptempo headline with little of substance to inform the target audience - ANGLERS!
Given that there hasn't been any migration into the river - and resultant spawning - for nearly 40 yrs, where are the salmon to know that they can migrate up the Derwent?
Will there need to be extensive replenishment with fry/parr/fertilised eggs to create a 'native' population to perform the 'outward leg' of migration first?
Who is funding that? How much will it cost? Can we have assurances that this will not deplete the current fisheries budget for the area?
Sorry - but this is yet another poor quality article from the FishingMagic pen - revolving round an uptempo headline with little of substance to inform the target audience - ANGLERS!
The bad one
Well-known member
It answer your question Greenie, the Barrage has been the impediment to natural migration into the Ouse system by being closed all the time. Now it’s open for 8 hr a day the fish that come into the river naturally will have passage into the system to spawn in the headwaters. Thereby building up the stocks naturally over time.
As a point of interest, the first salmon (a spent fish) I saw alive and in the water was on the Derwent at Stamford Bridge way back in the late 1960s. Coincidently, I also saw my first barbel in the flesh on the same day. Sadly I didn’t catch it, my mate Dave did and it was 4 lb 3 oz and along with a few silver fish he won the club match were on.
As a point of interest, the first salmon (a spent fish) I saw alive and in the water was on the Derwent at Stamford Bridge way back in the late 1960s. Coincidently, I also saw my first barbel in the flesh on the same day. Sadly I didn’t catch it, my mate Dave did and it was 4 lb 3 oz and along with a few silver fish he won the club match were on.
The point I was trying to make was that given that salmon 'return' to their spawning ground 'naturally' - how are the going to know they should make the turn-off now given they haven't been able to 'naturally' for longer than several salmon generations?
The bad one
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It's not a hard and fast rule that one Greenie. Tagged Scottish fish have turned up in both the Lune and Ribble. Given them the means and they'll do the rest over time.
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No, if you read the source you will see it is an East Yorkshire Rivers Trust and Institute of Fisheries Management press release. We did not write it, we simply published it in the interests of dissemination of information that may be useful to anglers in the region.
black kettle
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Hi Greenie,
Being anadromous, salmon are born in freshwater but migrate into the ocean whereby some years later return to freshwater in order to breed. Whilst most salmon return to the place of their birth, some salmon return but not always to the river of their birth. One theory suggests that some salmon are unable to return to their birth river due to exhaustion so opt for another river instead.
However, I feel that the articles estimate claiming anglers will now catch 500 salmon and 1,400 sea trout in the river each year is in reality some years away.
The river Tweed in Scotland arguably one of the finest salmon rivers in the UK boasted sea trout captures last season of 1,451. With salmon catches at 14,794 all recorded to the river Tweed Commission.
Regards,
Lee.
Being anadromous, salmon are born in freshwater but migrate into the ocean whereby some years later return to freshwater in order to breed. Whilst most salmon return to the place of their birth, some salmon return but not always to the river of their birth. One theory suggests that some salmon are unable to return to their birth river due to exhaustion so opt for another river instead.
However, I feel that the articles estimate claiming anglers will now catch 500 salmon and 1,400 sea trout in the river each year is in reality some years away.
The river Tweed in Scotland arguably one of the finest salmon rivers in the UK boasted sea trout captures last season of 1,451. With salmon catches at 14,794 all recorded to the river Tweed Commission.
Regards,
Lee.
River Ouse Linton locks area, York Amalgamation issue Salmon fishing
permits each year, for some 6 weeks when the Salmon run.
As I understand the number of permits planned were fully sold out.
See York website for details.
Seems the fish are there and in many other places .
permits each year, for some 6 weeks when the Salmon run.
As I understand the number of permits planned were fully sold out.
See York website for details.
Seems the fish are there and in many other places .
chub_on_the_block
Well-known member
I think Greenie makes a fair point. I know that during the efforts to reintroduce salmon to the Thames, fry or parr were stocked in a wide range of tributaries during the 1970s. Some locations were particularly optimistic given the numbers of weirs and impenetrable sections of river that lay between them and the sea at the time.
Thanks for the reminder:
So - how's that going then - after 40 yrs? Has it been a success?
I know that tagged salmon from all over end up in other river systems - there have been studies of the Dyfrdwy (R. Dee) and the Tweed which included the 'foreigners' - but they showed these to be a tiny minority of the returners! - not a great source of swelling the ranks then!
Perhaps we need to look at why salmonids don't return to their 'birth' river by choice - Hmmm? Could it be because it doesn't smell/taste too good any more?
So - how's that going then - after 40 yrs? Has it been a success?
I know that tagged salmon from all over end up in other river systems - there have been studies of the Dyfrdwy (R. Dee) and the Tweed which included the 'foreigners' - but they showed these to be a tiny minority of the returners! - not a great source of swelling the ranks then!
Perhaps we need to look at why salmonids don't return to their 'birth' river by choice - Hmmm? Could it be because it doesn't smell/taste too good any more?
The bad one
Well-known member
Like Lee I think the number being suggested is very optimistic in the near future.
If you look at the Ribble Returns for 2010-11, which is in the top 4 Game rivers in England. The returns for salmon were 1160 and 1460 for sea trout. Suggesting the Yorks rivers in the near future could do the equivalent ST is in my view wildly optimistic.
Sorry Greenie I don’t agree with your analysis of the research you cite and for this reason, the numbers of tagged salmon (standard tags) released are small for each river they are returned too. 30-100. If only two tagged “Foreign fish” turn up in a river, which is not their home river, it’s impossible to extrapolate from that that the numbers of foreigners is low, as you don’t know how many untagged foreigners came into the river with them.
All you can say is, you only know that 2 foreign tagged fish were caught be that by rod and line or in survey nets.
If radio tags are fitted, which is done for movement studies, not population studies. The cost of them is prohibitive and at most 5-15 fish are tagged. To then use the returns of them for population studies would be bad science at best because of the very low sample size.
Not all anglers report they’ve caught a tagged fish of any discription, ergo there’s under reporting.
To your final point that would be the case if no salmon were returning into such a river, But not if salmon were running it.
If you look at the Ribble Returns for 2010-11, which is in the top 4 Game rivers in England. The returns for salmon were 1160 and 1460 for sea trout. Suggesting the Yorks rivers in the near future could do the equivalent ST is in my view wildly optimistic.
Sorry Greenie I don’t agree with your analysis of the research you cite and for this reason, the numbers of tagged salmon (standard tags) released are small for each river they are returned too. 30-100. If only two tagged “Foreign fish” turn up in a river, which is not their home river, it’s impossible to extrapolate from that that the numbers of foreigners is low, as you don’t know how many untagged foreigners came into the river with them.
All you can say is, you only know that 2 foreign tagged fish were caught be that by rod and line or in survey nets.
If radio tags are fitted, which is done for movement studies, not population studies. The cost of them is prohibitive and at most 5-15 fish are tagged. To then use the returns of them for population studies would be bad science at best because of the very low sample size.
Not all anglers report they’ve caught a tagged fish of any discription, ergo there’s under reporting.
To your final point that would be the case if no salmon were returning into such a river, But not if salmon were running it.
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I read somewhere that it is pretty good news for the Seals too . . . . . . as they can now access the huge Bream shoals in the river.
Apparently the Seals used to mop-up an estimated 75% of the waiting salmon while the barrage was closed.
Now, being left open for so long, it will allow better and longer access for the Seals to get into the river.
As a reverse saying: Every Silver Lining has a Cloud, eh?
Apparently the Seals used to mop-up an estimated 75% of the waiting salmon while the barrage was closed.
Now, being left open for so long, it will allow better and longer access for the Seals to get into the river.
As a reverse saying: Every Silver Lining has a Cloud, eh?
The bad one
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Oh bloody hell don't start another debate about seals Peter!
But it's a fair point given the Wash and Humber estuary are strongholds for grey seals.
But it's a fair point given the Wash and Humber estuary are strongholds for grey seals.
black kettle
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Here's another thought.
After talking to a marine biologist in Australia, (in Hillarys) I was told that Great White Sharks can, and do, turn up almost anywhere in the world and it is a complete myth that they only frequent the warmer oceans. Apparently these sharks can alter their temperature to suit the water they are hunting in. I also know that fishing vessels off the coast of Cornwall have been spotting Great Whites for some years now.
So, the barrier is left open and the salmon flood in hastily followed by hungry seals. Now what is the Great Whites favourite food?
We're gonna need a bigger boat.
After talking to a marine biologist in Australia, (in Hillarys) I was told that Great White Sharks can, and do, turn up almost anywhere in the world and it is a complete myth that they only frequent the warmer oceans. Apparently these sharks can alter their temperature to suit the water they are hunting in. I also know that fishing vessels off the coast of Cornwall have been spotting Great Whites for some years now.
So, the barrier is left open and the salmon flood in hastily followed by hungry seals. Now what is the Great Whites favourite food?
We're gonna need a bigger boat.
geoffmaynard
Content Editor
DNA studies on the Mersey salmon show they have genes from fish from over 30 different rivers - including Norwegian ones which were imo probably Scottish fish-farm escapees.
All rivers are populated by fish from nearby rivers 'straying'.
All rivers are populated by fish from nearby rivers 'straying'.
The bad one
Well-known member
And more barrels!
I think the East Yorks Rivers Trust's figures are dubious. If a long established salmon fishery, the Yorks Esk, only records 200 salmon and 600 sea trout catches yearly, it's hard to believe that the Derwent will produce 500 salmon and 1400 sea trout each year.
There's no established run of migratory fish up the Derwent. Even with the Barmby barrage open (only 8 hours daily), there may be other barriers upstream, such as weirs, which prevent the migration. There's no certainty that a prolific run will develop in the future.
There's no established run of migratory fish up the Derwent. Even with the Barmby barrage open (only 8 hours daily), there may be other barriers upstream, such as weirs, which prevent the migration. There's no certainty that a prolific run will develop in the future.