Outboard motor advice needed

Philip · Jul 7, 2014

Hello all, I am looking to buy a small outboard motor for an inflatable zodiac 2/3 person dingy. the boat is rated to take up to a 5 hp motor.

I will be using it on rivers similar in size to the lower/middle Thames.
I dont think an electric motor is going to be powerful enough so its a petrol engine i am looking for.

I am hesitating over the size and type i should go for...Suzuki for example do a 2.5hp 4 stroke motor that weighs just 13kg.....but i am mulling wheter i should go for something more powerful but then it will also be heavier.

Speed is not my main concern, weight, portability and reliability are. As long as it can get me back up river in a reasonable time and not have me sitting static fighting the current i will be happy.

Does anyone have any recommendations or advise for a small, light, reliable outboard and any advise on the engine size to go for?

thanks!

aebitim · Jul 7, 2014

2.5 HP should be enough though probably worth considering a 4hp if you intend to use the boat on other water or three up when the river is pushing. Tohatsu seem to make the lightest engines at the moment and are finding favour with the commercial users. If you are buying new it shouldnt be a problem but its worth mentioning that the emission regs are getting tighter on the inland UK waterways. I have a 3.3 Mariner 2 stroke as a reserve that is very light and quite powerfull and pushes my 13ft aluminium american bass boat nicely [though it goes much better with the 5hp yamaha main motor] and would recomend it if the emisions arent an issue.

greenie62 · Jul 8, 2014

I will be using it on rivers similar in size to the lower/middle Thames.

Is there a PRN?

aebitim · Jul 8, 2014

greenie62 said:
Is there a PRN?

Good question, but suspect that if it is a river the size of the lower Thames you are more likely to run into ships than canoes.

mick b · Jul 8, 2014

I once had a 16' x 4' all wood flat bottomed fishing/gunning punt and a 2.5 Seagull would push that with two up, around on the river no problem at all.

Ive also used an electric motor on a USA 17' Bass boat with 50hp main to fish all day (5-6hrs) without any problems at all, though that was fishing a large lake, not old Father Thames.

Take care, and whatever you do wear a lifejacket at all times.

.

aebitim · Jul 8, 2014

mick b said:
I once had a 16' x 4' all wood flat bottomed fishing/gunning punt and a 2.5 Seagull would push that with two up, around on the river no problem at all.

Ive also used an electric motor on a USA 17' Bass boat with 50hp main to fish all day (5-6hrs) without any problems at all, though that was fishing a large lake, not old Father Thames.

Take care, and whatever you do wear a lifejacket at all times.

.

Hats off to you mate, 50 horses on a 17 ft tinny, Tried a 20hp on mine and the only thing in the water was the prop, I have a quicksilver mercury 13ft which weighs 55 kg and is great for splash and dash uk bassing, not tried it in the river yet though. Not sure I would want to rely on an electric motor for long duration/high discharge use though. The life jacket advice is a winner.

mick b · Jul 8, 2014

aebitim said:
Hats off to you mate, 50 horses on a 17 ft tinny, Tried a 20hp on mine and the only thing in the water was the prop, I have a quicksilver mercury 13ft which weighs 55 kg and is great for splash and dash uk bassing, not tried it in the river yet though. Not sure I would want to rely on an electric motor for long duration/high discharge use though. The life jacket advice is a winner.

No no no Tim, you've got it wrong, the boat Im referring to was a specialist US boat made for Black Bass Tournament fishing.
Im trying to dig up some photographs as Im beginning to remember both the engine and the boat were actually bigger........its age you know

mg:
Cannot remember anything about the electric engine but the battery system was certainly a twin with a split charging arrangement.

We would bomb out to the bays we intended to fish then go over to electric until we wanted to go back in the evening...no night fishing...MOZZIES as big as C41s!!

Splash and Dash.....brilliant!

Mon Bassin IOW will send you a rpt

.

Philip · Jul 11, 2014

Thanks for all the replies.

aebitim said:
2.5 HP should be enough though probably worth considering a 4hp if you intend to use the boat on other water or three up when the river is pushing. Tohatsu seem to make the lightest engines at the moment and are finding favour with the commercial users. If you are buying new it shouldnt be a problem but its worth mentioning that the emission regs are getting tighter on the inland UK waterways. I have a 3.3 Mariner 2 stroke as a reserve that is very light and quite powerfull and pushes my 13ft aluminium american bass boat nicely [though it goes much better with the 5hp yamaha main motor] and would recomend it if the emisions arent an issue.

I have seen Tohatsu are still making and selling a small 2 stroke 2.5 or 3.5 motor...the M2.5 or M3.5 for reference M2.5/TwoStroke/Products/Tohatsu Outboard Motors

I am assuming that as its still available & being sold the emissons wont be an issue i.e it should conform ?

Other motor I am looking at is the Suzuki DF 2.5 which is 4 stroke.
Suzuki Marine - Product Lines - Outboard Motors - Products - DF2_5 - 2012 - DF2_5

I keep seeing reference to 2 strokes being more reliable and easier. Apoligies if its a simplistic question but is there a real difference between wheter its 2 stroke or 4 stroke in practical terms ? ....I saw some info saying you had to mix feul with a 2 stroke...

Thanks again.

greenie62 · Jul 11, 2014

Apoligies if its a simplistic question but is there a real difference between wheter its 2 stroke or 4 stroke in practical terms ? ....I saw some info saying you had to mix feul with a 2 stroke...

4-stroke takes straight petrol. The necessary oil to keep the piston/rings/valves/etc lubricated is provided by the oil-pump and oil-way engine plumbing.

2-strokes have the oil mixed with the fuel - either in the fuel tank by adding a measured amount of 2stroke oil with a measured amount of fuel or via a special 2-stroke oil pump injecting the oil into the fuel delivery system - on some models. The oil is then distributed around the combustion system by means of the fuel. You still have to add engine oil (a different sort from the 2stroke oil) for the rest the motor.

For a single cylinder engine - 2-strokes produce power on every engine rev, whereas 4-strokes produce power on every other rev.

Each system has its devotees - ya pays yer money - ya takes yer choice!

mick b · Jul 11, 2014

The only way to go is a 4 stroke.

Reasons;
2 stroke oil is very expensive and the price increases very regularly.
4s are far less polluting of the environment.
The engines are modified commercials thus service parts etc are far easier and cheaper than the manufacturers marine equivalent, anodes excepted.
You can self service as they are just like a car engine.
They are quieter, and correctly propped more efficient.
Very high resale value.

Their only downside of a 4 stroke is the initial cost.

My experience;
For over ten years I regularly fished up to thirty miles offshore with just a single Yamaha 4 stroke power unit without a single problem, self serviced and regularly maintained from new.

.

aebitim · Jul 11, 2014

Philip said:
Thanks for all the replies.

I have seen Tohatsu are still making and selling a small 2 stroke 2.5 or 3.5 motor...the M2.5 or M3.5 for reference M2.5/TwoStroke/Products/Tohatsu Outboard Motors

I am assuming that as its still available & being sold the emissons wont be an issue i.e it should conform ?

Other motor I am looking at is the Suzuki DF 2.5 which is 4 stroke.
Suzuki Marine - Product Lines - Outboard Motors - Products - DF2_5 - 2012 - DF2_5

I keep seeing reference to 2 strokes being more reliable and easier. Apoligies if its a simplistic question but is there a real difference between wheter its 2 stroke or 4 stroke in practical terms ? ....I saw some info saying you had to mix feul with a 2 stroke...

Thanks again.

Hi Philip,
EURO 4 I think is the current standard on inland uk waterways, some of the small 2 stroke engines conform but wont when euro 5 comes in. The big advantage with 2 stroke on small engines is that they are light and unfussy. The modern ones run on 100/1 fuel and are less economical perhaps 10% more expensive in total. Big advantage is that the small 4 strokes carry about a spoonfull of oil and if you lay it down the wrong side up the oil will have a good chance of ending up in the cylinder. With larger motors a 4 stroke without question, with anything under 6hp for me its 2 stroke every time.
With a little care mixing the oil and fuel is easy, a 2 stroke relies on oil in the fuel to lubricate the piston and crankshaft bearings, a four stroke relies on a pump, a 4 stroke is far more complicated having a valve train and valves in a much larger cylinder head hence the weight difference. hope this helps.

---------- Post added at 01:04 ---------- Previous post was at 00:41 ----------

A quick check tells me that euro 4 doesnt apply, there is a specific non road use standard for emissions, any 2 stroke motor for sale in the uk post 2002 should meet regs.
If it were me I would go for the 3.5 2 stroke.

greenie62 · Jul 11, 2014

Hi Philip,

MickB says:

The only way to go is a 4 stroke.

aebitim said:
If it were me I would go for the 3.5 2 stroke.

See what I mean about "each has its own devotees"

- Personally I think you should go electric since I don't believe you should pollute our waters any more than they are!

- Dons tin hat and retreats under table!

mg:

Have fun - in a non-polluting way!

mick b · Jul 11, 2014

greenie62 said:
Hi Philip,

MickB says:

See what I mean about "each has its own devotees" - Personally I think you should go electric since I don't believe you should pollute our waters any more than they are! - Dons tin hat and retreats under table! mg:

Have fun - in a non-polluting way!

I agree totally and have followed that principal to the ultimate by rowing for 5 days solid around Grapham on the original pike-out days......

mg:
(Don't ask where the petrol went)

However lugging big batteries around isn't a long term option imo.
The only time they are viable is if you have a big main to do the recharging.

My own experience is of the bigger 4 strokes, whereas albetim certainly seems to have more knowledge of the smaller engines which is why I would follow his advice if I was a newbie.

.

aebitim · Jul 11, 2014

greenie62 said:
Hi Philip,

MickB says:

See what I mean about "each has its own devotees" - Personally I think you should go electric since I don't believe you should pollute our waters any more than they are! - Dons tin hat and retreats under table! mg:

Have fun - in a non-polluting way!

Fair comment, problem with electric motors is that like cars they arent quite there yet, fine for short bursts etc but not yet good enough for prolonged high discharge use, no point in having a motor that is going to run out of go just when you need it. Should I be using my boat in fresh water my auxilary would certainly be electric, though the oars would probably see more use.

greenie62 · Jul 11, 2014

There you go Philip, I couldn't even get a row going!

mg:
The solution by common accord is to get the oars out until they develop light enough, powerful enough, batteries for a 'leccy' boat!
Glad to have been of help!

geoffmaynard · Jul 11, 2014

But a two-stroke is much lighter and better suited for fishing very shallow water - or if you have to carry it any great distance.

mick b · Jul 12, 2014

geoffmaynard said:
But a two-stroke is much lighter and better suited for fishing very shallow water - or if you have to carry it any great distance.

Why do you say is it better suited to shallow water Geof ??

Thanks, M.

.

aebitim · Jul 12, 2014

greenie62 said:
Hi Philip,

MickB says:

See what I mean about "each has its own devotees" - Personally I think you should go electric since I don't believe you should pollute our waters any more than they are! - Dons tin hat and retreats under table! mg:

Have fun - in a non-polluting way!

Much looking forward to the discourse on the carbon footprint of pie production in Wigan, and your efforts to offset this by using an electric car.

greenie62 · Jul 12, 2014

carbon footprint of pie production in Wigan

What Carbon footprint?
Tater n Mate pies are made from locally sourced ingredients - loads of spuds in Lancashire (famous for 'em!) and loads of Bull too!

:thumbs:

Philip · Jul 12, 2014

Thanks again for all the replies, its really helpful ....so it looks like there is a slight lean towards 2 stroke.

It seems the only downside with 2 stroke if I am reading the replies correctly is that you basically have to mix your own fuel ?

Is that really the only difference or am I missing something ?

....If they are lighter, cheaper and the performance is about equilicant to a 4 stroke then I can live with mixing fuel ...how difficult can it be ?

Outboard motor advice needed

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