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This is a dedicated thread for discussing article: English and Welsh Salmon Stocks ‘Crash’
English and Welsh Salmon Stocks ‘Crash’
- Thread starter FishingMagic
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Cliff Hatton
Well-known member
When you've just swum 4,000 miles, dodging nets and predators - and anglers - the final insult to your raison detre must be the ever-expanding circus of conoeists occupying your reproduction-site. I'm not totally anti-canoe - they're non-polluting and rowed largely by those with 'green' credentials - but they really should be barred from the upper reaches of our salmon rivers. And anyway... beautiful 'wild' rivers shouldn't be subjected to the indignity of mass canoeing; a few, yes, but numbers are projected to increase massively in the next few years: something MUST be done.
bennygesserit
Well-known member
Cliff join Song of the paddle canoeing forum and try explaining that , needs a lot of patience and expect some flak ( from every direction ) there are some paddlers campaigning for exactly what you say one of the difficulties appears to be that it may be unwise to mark Redds in case others seek to vandalise them.
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geoffmaynard
Content Editor
The laws are already in place to protect the upper rivers. What's missing is the will of the authorities to enforce those laws. How do we get these people to do their jobs instead of ducking and diving to avoid doing them?
Who's Chris?
Who's Chris?
bennygesserit
Well-known member
I changed the name sorry Cliff.
Do you think Redds disturbance by canoes is solely responsible Geoff ?
stu_the_blank
Well-known member
It can't be Benny, it just doesn't help. Drift netting off Ireland was a real problem to English/Welsh salmon runs, until it was stopped a few years ago, it will take an very long time to recover. Salmon stocks are cyclical, one good spawning season only equals one better run. The best illustustration of this is Pink Salmon on the Frazer. As a result of an accident when the railways were built the river was blocked as Pink Salmon were running. Decades later, Pinks only run in odd years. That accident wiped out even years.
We need to protect our Salmon from egg to spawning, they are very vunerable. It can be done, the Wye and Usk Foundation have shown the way as far as the freshwater part of the story goes.
Stu
geoffmaynard
Content Editor
I often wondered about the bi-annual pink run. Thanks Stu, another question cleared up.
Salmon are being shot by a hundred pellets rather than one bullet. Sea mortality, netting, sea-lice from salmon farms, habitat degradation etc. Some of these are more serious than others - but only those which get a political agenda are addressed.
There is a lot of hype about the Wye & Usk Foundation. They have a good sales and PR team which can easily mislead people. Yes they undoubtably have done some good work over the years but there is a lot of criticism of their stance in recent years from Wye anglers who now consider them a business rather than a charity, feeding off the concern for the river.
WUF were originally formed to help angling and salmon but their 'mission statement' has altered over the years to the point where they now are considered by many to be as much of a curse as a gift to anglers. Presumably due to financial grants (Splash Funding etc), they now actively encourage canoeing on areas of river where there is no PRN, and want to spread this activity throughout the country. They are also vocally opposed to any form of salmon hatchery for stocking (despite having run one themselves for some years when it was grant-funded) and insist that the way forward is through habitat enhancement, ignoring the fact that after spending around £15million over the years, it hasn't worked and the river is still in decline with salmon runs still in the gutter. Annual flooding destroys much of the work done and the excuse is always 'give it another 5 years'. Everyone is a bit tired of that now.
Salmon are being shot by a hundred pellets rather than one bullet. Sea mortality, netting, sea-lice from salmon farms, habitat degradation etc. Some of these are more serious than others - but only those which get a political agenda are addressed.
There is a lot of hype about the Wye & Usk Foundation. They have a good sales and PR team which can easily mislead people. Yes they undoubtably have done some good work over the years but there is a lot of criticism of their stance in recent years from Wye anglers who now consider them a business rather than a charity, feeding off the concern for the river.
WUF were originally formed to help angling and salmon but their 'mission statement' has altered over the years to the point where they now are considered by many to be as much of a curse as a gift to anglers. Presumably due to financial grants (Splash Funding etc), they now actively encourage canoeing on areas of river where there is no PRN, and want to spread this activity throughout the country. They are also vocally opposed to any form of salmon hatchery for stocking (despite having run one themselves for some years when it was grant-funded) and insist that the way forward is through habitat enhancement, ignoring the fact that after spending around £15million over the years, it hasn't worked and the river is still in decline with salmon runs still in the gutter. Annual flooding destroys much of the work done and the excuse is always 'give it another 5 years'. Everyone is a bit tired of that now.
stu_the_blank
Well-known member
Hi Geoff,
I thought that the Salmon runs had improved significantly on the Wye in particular. Is that not the case?
Regards
Stu
geoffmaynard
Content Editor
That's what I mean about having a good PR team 
When a river goes from At Risk to Probably at Risk, the politicians call this success. To me the glass is still 7/8ths empty.
So no. Compared to what the river is capable of producing it's bloody awful. A couple of years they managed to scrape 1000+ fish from it and lauded it from on high, articles titled 'How the Wye was Won' etc. This year we'll be lucky to get 7 or 800. It used to do thousands. All the data is here: RWGA Home
"During the period 1966 to 1971 the annual rod catch had averaged 5413 fish with a peak of 7864 fish in 1967 of which 4842 were recorded as being over 15lb! 1971 saw 5094 fish..."
When a river goes from At Risk to Probably at Risk, the politicians call this success. To me the glass is still 7/8ths empty.So no. Compared to what the river is capable of producing it's bloody awful. A couple of years they managed to scrape 1000+ fish from it and lauded it from on high, articles titled 'How the Wye was Won' etc. This year we'll be lucky to get 7 or 800. It used to do thousands. All the data is here: RWGA Home
"During the period 1966 to 1971 the annual rod catch had averaged 5413 fish with a peak of 7864 fish in 1967 of which 4842 were recorded as being over 15lb! 1971 saw 5094 fish..."
stu_the_blank
Well-known member
Thanks Geoff,
As you say, certainly good PR!
Stu
As you say, certainly good PR!
Stu
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Oh God, we're blaming outfits, orgs, won't stock the river (my fishery value is bombing) "university fisheries kids" and anybody but OURSELVES and our all-important, growth-growth-growth, drive anywhere-fly anywhere ("Now!" or "Like yesterday!"), do it all, "Bucket List", "Before You Die", unsustainable, insane but holy "Lifestyles". I've seen salmon turn the Wye, Severn and many a Welsh river black, white, silver and grey as they ran them, not that many years ago.
WE blew it, chaps. Stop whining and change the system that caused the problem.
Anyway, I'll leave you to it; I am not here for an argument.
WE blew it, chaps. Stop whining and change the system that caused the problem.
Anyway, I'll leave you to it; I am not here for an argument.
geoffmaynard
Content Editor
Who's this 'we' Tonto? I've only been salmon fishing for about two years
But changing the system is exactly what is required, I agree.- Joined
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We, Kemo Sabe, is US, you, me and the rest - the people who run with the nonsense that is fed to us by People (note the upper case 'P') who fish the fleshpots of Russia these days, having abandoned the Wye (and Scotland, for the most part, except the Helmsdale and Tweed, years ago): the "Smart Money".
bennygesserit
Well-known member
Surely the smart money pales compared to multi-nationals allowing the whole world to go to the shredder
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One and the same, the Corporates and the "Smart Money", Benny. Takes one to know One, having gone to school with them. But then you possibly might not know....
I am not here. I'm gone ... too much of boat-rocking irritant ... bad for business and morale etc...
I am not here. I'm gone ... too much of boat-rocking irritant ... bad for business and morale etc...
geoffmaynard
Content Editor
Good entertainment though. Without pot stirrers forums would be boring places indeed.
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We - well, "I demand bigger and bigger and easier bangs for my huge buck, and will move on to the next fairground at the drop of an in-crowd whisper" salmon-fishers particularly - might all benefit from taking a gander at this little movie from Norway.
[ame=http://vimeo.com/102466658]Playing an atlantic salmon - filming under water on Vimeo[/ame]
There might be a lot more salmon about if we started treating the oceans a lot better (fewer sandeels for fertiliser, oily fish for pellets etc) and this Planet, for that matter. We can't stop the present global warming, it's partly natural, but we can do something about not contributing to it and turning salmon and sea-trout into fish only to be found in the Arctic Far North, which is what is happening at present.
[ame=http://vimeo.com/102466658]Playing an atlantic salmon - filming under water on Vimeo[/ame]
There might be a lot more salmon about if we started treating the oceans a lot better (fewer sandeels for fertiliser, oily fish for pellets etc) and this Planet, for that matter. We can't stop the present global warming, it's partly natural, but we can do something about not contributing to it and turning salmon and sea-trout into fish only to be found in the Arctic Far North, which is what is happening at present.
Ever so slightly obliquely the music is by a Swedish singer, Jon Henrik Fjallgren performing a Sami "Joik" which is a sort of personal outpouring of emotion.
When the Sami folk were "Christianized" joiking was outlawed as being un-christian. . . . . . . . not so today thankfully.
My personal favorite is Marie Boine who is a Lappish lady who was born in Finnmark where the trout and salmon fishing is just brilliant.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KD15yirwhW4"]Mari Boine - I Come From The Other Side - YouTube[/ame]
Incidentally, he won the Sweden's got Talent this year . . . . . . . .
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRfMIbBAJ1A[/ame]
When the Sami folk were "Christianized" joiking was outlawed as being un-christian. . . . . . . . not so today thankfully.
My personal favorite is Marie Boine who is a Lappish lady who was born in Finnmark where the trout and salmon fishing is just brilliant.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KD15yirwhW4"]Mari Boine - I Come From The Other Side - YouTube[/ame]
Incidentally, he won the Sweden's got Talent this year . . . . . . . .
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRfMIbBAJ1A[/ame]
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bennygesserit
Well-known member
So not exclusively a riverine problem , also an oceanic one ?
Is it the Tyne where they seeded the river over and over with Salmon and saw a return , sort of , on their "investment" in terms of returning fish ? Or is it one of the natural cycles ( Mother nature is chaos and is never in balance ) or do you think some combination.