Diminishing access of waters to fish !

Reading through the sentimental journeys thread (an excellent thread) it strikes me there is a theme, that of diminishing access to waters. Many appear to be out of bounds now that were once waters where many a young person first picked up the bug for fishing. And even if fishing was not allowed, the youngster would probably have not got into big trouble if he did fish; and as one poster commented he was not aware he was not allowed to fish it. But would anyone in authority have worried about it much back then, maybe a gentle telling off.
There are many aspects of our sport that's gone in the wrong direction in my opinion, and this one has probably been out of our control in many cases but, not all. Should we doing more about it? Should more authorities, councils, water owners etc be encouraged to relent on this by our angling bodies and officials..

markg said:

But would anyone in authority have worried about it much back then, maybe a gentle telling off.

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I think that would all depend on which era your grew up in Mark.

If you tried fishing on the local park lake close to my home you'd get a lot more than a gentle telling off, believe me . . . .

Rearrange the following into a well known phrase or saying:

Ear, clip, a, hard, around, the . . . . . . . .

One of the areas that I would like to see far more effort, and success, is for the angling community (and its' governing body) to fight more loudly to retain the right to fish on commons and park land, and to stop nanny-state councils from closing these venues down.

Totally agree Mark,
One of the snags with many waters being off-limits to 'all angling' is that there is no 'early warning' system for pollution incidents!
Up around this way the Irwell catchment is undergoing a bit of a renewal by encouraging more fishing on the rivers coupled with monitoring and reporting of sewage and wastewater outflows. This is resulting in a gradual cleanup of the rivers and tributaries which had been open sewers.
Clubs like Salford Friendly have led the way in this working with the EA to manage the rivers and provide an invertebrate sampling programme as well as feedback on weed and fish distribution.

Leaving rivers fallow and unfished can be beneficial but only as a short-term measure - without the angling nobody knows when things have 'gone wrong'!

In addition to the fishing-banning "nanny state councils", a very close eye must also be kept on fishing gentrifiers - the people who lay their hands on a piece of often formerly publicly accessible water (however bad it might be), t@rt it up and turn it round, make it suitable for Spotties, and transform it into a fishery that can only be fished by themselves and their mates. I'm all for improving waters, but not when this means closing them to the very people who keep the whole Angling Thing going - kids, newcomers, impecunious mere mortals and people not like us.

I can't honestly think of much water that has been totally lost to angling in my area. A few clubs have gone under, lost water to others clubs or syndicates, but that's about it. There has never been much in the way of council owned or free water though.

I can think of four privately owned stillwaters, that I have frequented in the past, that are gone. One was barely fished, and silting up very badly, before the owners gave up on it. There have been attempts to get it reopened that have come to nothing. I doubt that it'll be much more than twelve inches deep these days.

Another was an old brick pit that was part of an outdoor centre. I believe that they simply decided that they didn't really want the hassle of anglers visiting and selling day tickets. Shame as it was a reasonable water with tench and pike. I'd have liked to have had the opportunity to get to grips with it.

The third was a well known water in the grounds of very famous stately home. Sadly, by the time it was lost as a day ticket venue, it was a pale shadow of its former glory as a prime tench, bream, roach and pike venue. I believe that it's not totally lost to angling. It's supposed to be accessible if you use the camp/caravan site.

The fourth was a club water for years, ridiculously overgrown and neglected. The cost and logistics of doing anything significant was prohibitive, especially when the ever present danger of the nearby river flooding it was taken into account. There's still some decent (for the locality) tench and bream in there, perhaps the odd very old, gnarly carp, amongst the masses of lillies that are strangling the life out of it. I believe that fishing could be allowed on it if anyone were prepared to pay the landowners desired rental rate. The fact that no one seems interested tells a fairly sad story. I doubt it could ever be a day ticket venue or a syndicate. The only hope is that a club takes it on.

Amongst the bad news there are gems of hope too: eg the Wandle in south London - a victorian trout stream, polluted for much of the 20-th century and now a coarse fishery noted for barbel (but always vulnerable to a pollution incident). A lot of smaller northern rivers have also been cleaned up in recent decades.

Greenie makes a good point about anglers keeping an eye on these rivers. I remember hearing the Wandle was getting stocked with dace, barbel, chub etc in the early 1990s as part of a clever plan to raise peoples expectations of that river and promote a sustainable fishery. There were a few unpleasant fisk kills at first - and these highlighted the polluters responsible (usually Thames Water sewage works) and led to action to clean up their act. For decades previous the pollutions only killed a few barely visible invertebrates - which the public are even less concerned about than fish.

Paul Boote said:

..... transform it into a fishery that can only be fished by themselves and their mates. I'm all for improving waters, but not when this means closing them to the very people who keep the whole Angling Thing going - kids, newcomers, impecunious mere mortals and people not like us.

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Good point Paul,
Salford Friendly is hardly the sort of club that would ban someone for not fishing Dray Flay upstream HOWEVER the River Irwell flows into the Mersey via the Manchester Ship Canal - the banks of which are owned by a large company which has banned all angling on 'elf n safety' grounds - so unfortunately we can't tell how much the fishing potential of the Canal has improved!
I have visions of a few years down the line when the obstructions on the Irwell and tributaries have been removed and a Sea Trout and Salmon run has been established when a certain company lets the fishing as part of a NW Tourism package with the Hotels it owns, the Airport it owns, the Shopping city it owns on the Canal it owns, with the full support of the Council..... to promote the area.

Maybe a bit far-fetched but it's just a question of time!

Not beyond the bounds of possibility, Greenie - when salmon (and sea-trout) returned to the Ribble and Tyne there was real jockeying by moneyed individuals and syndicates to get themselves a piece of the new action. Just see salmon run the Wye again in big numbers and barbel fishers won't get a sniff of the river except in dead of winter (and only then on stretches where the salmon are not spawning). Not for nothing that Patrick R. Chalmers (himself a Scots salmon-fisher) wrote about how he hoped that salmon never returned to the Thames in his Thames classic, At The Tail of the Weir, forseeing that Lord So-and-So would want to fish the best water exclusively.

When stuff with spots suddenly puts in an appearance, all decency, sense of fairplay and democracy can go out straight out of the window - they're the must-have at any expense ultimate drug for their devotees and addicts.

I've not been too badly hit as mentioned in the other thread, if anything there are probably more waters available around here with the emergence of commercials in the area such as Sherwood Forest Farm Park although I don't frequent them (not knocking 'em either).

One complex of waters that I believe are now off bounds are the three legendary Walter Bower's lakes at North Muskham, all attempts to try and gain any up to date information have failed and I've heard it's now a nature reserve (?), a shame if no longer fishable as the first lake was the scene of my only 30lb+ pike many years ago now.

After Walt's passing does anyone remember his cheery widow at the farmhouse where you would stop for a ticket surrounded by all those yappy little dogs she kept?

A lovely old lady either way.

I fully sympathise with those that have seen their number of available waters declining over the years and another vote for anglers being the eyes and ears of the riverbank/lakeside.

Greenie, the only way Peel Holdings will open up the Canal is if they can make pots of money off it. It's a shame really because the potential is huge.

Paul slight correction re the Ribble the salmon and seatrout never left the river mate. The ave since records began 1944 have been consistent at about 800 total catches, net and rod, for salmon and around 600 for seatrout p y. There was not a money rush in on the river and many of the clubs that control or own length today have controlled/owned them for 40 years.

In the area where I live, Yorkshire, I don't think there's diminishing access to stillwaters, in fact there's a lot more available to anglers than say thirty years ago. This is due to the growing popularity of commercial fisheries, with easy access and easy fishing. Anglers get used to bites every cast and are less likely to fish traditional stillwaters with limited stocks of fish - basically the fishing's too hard compared with commercial fisheries.

With river fishing, the problem is that the quality of the fishing has declined on some rivers. The reasons may be pollution, over predation, who knows? On one of the rivers I fish, the fishing is harder on certain lengths and I don't think even the EA knows the answer. People are less likely to fish rivers if there aren't many fish to catch. In summer, access to the river bank becomes harder - there's not enough anglers clearing the undergrowth to reach the bankside.

Angling has changed in recent years, the sport is less attractive to young people. The remaining anglers are more selective in where they fish, often looking for convenient and easy fishing in man made surroundings. So it could be that clubs no longer want to obtain fishing rights on waters which will require more effort to maintain.

Peter, I am a bit rose tinted, there was a clip round the ear culture in my youth also.

However, it was easy for me to buy a relatively cheap half pint of maggots and make a ball of bread paste and go fishing for free when I was young. I honestly cannot remember if I needed or had a licence, no one bothered me about it though.

Could there be places where under sixteens could fish for free and legally without a licence. A park or along a stretch of river near a town designated as such. Could the EA and councils be persuaded to set up such a scheme.? Would it be worth it?