Is it me being grumpy??

I joined the 21st century and bought a laptop and joined FM rather late in 2012.
The following may have been going on for much longer of course but I get the impression that more and more new anglers want instant results for pike, perch,zander you name it without learning the basics and learning watercraft/location etc.
Lately there seems to be more requests for information on " where can I catch large......etc". Almost what swim sometimes.
Maybe its the influence of anglers starting out now on heavy stocked commercials and expecting big catches from the word go.

I woudn't dream of asking someone where they caught their big fish from as in most circumstances they had probably served their apprentiship and done their time research and spent their hard earned cash in doing so.
As my heading says... Is it me being grumpy...Too grumpy???

You and me both John.

Dont worry John you're not alone, and thats a fact.

don't think so. These people will find sooner or later that like anything worth learning in life that there are no short cuts. (assuming they are capable of learning)

There seems to be a whole generation of instant carpers. I know people that spend hundreds on the best gear for carp fishing , they are only interested in 20 lbs plus carp , even though they have never caught small fish or most if any of the local river species . In fact most of them have never fished rivers . I don't think its the same in predator fishing , not that I have seen anyway.

john step said:

...Maybe its the influence of anglers starting out now on heavy stocked commercials ....

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Hi John,
Agree with you in general but the effect of commercials is more subtle - it's not just a case of them being 'a-fish-a-chuck' water - it's the fact that they are readily accessible for the price of a ticket and are publicised for all and sundry. Anglers feel no compunction in keeping the waters secret and in fact are encouraged to do the opposite! So to them it's an 'open' sport with 'open venues'! The only thing to be 'secret squirrel' about is bait/method. That goes for a great extent to less-commercial day-ticket still waters, too.

Having started out on club waters - on rivers - with 4-5miles of bank to walk - there was a lot of research to do the hard way. Occasionally one of the seniors would take pity on me and give me a 'teach-in' if conditions were difficult. Hot-Spots were jealously guarded and enquiries as to where to get big fish were usually met with suitable directions ending in 'off' and a laugh!
I imagine variations on this theme were enjoyed by yourself and many other senior members of this forum!
Tight Lines!

I rather suspect that it was ever thus, though perhaps not to the same extent. However, the means for gathering the information has changed and is now far more obvious. Once upon a time you'd have to hang around the right people, write to them, join a specimen group, read the right magazines or something along those lines. Now, if you are prepared to do so, you just have to harvest the information from forums, magazines or even come straight out and brazenly ask for it to be given to you.

There's good reason that many people don't post much about catches of specimen fish and why some venues, clubs and syndicates have publicity bans. It might seem terribly cliquey to many, but there is a point to it beyond being the elitist snobs that some accuse the more circumspect of being. Generally speaking, the places that actively seek publicity are commercial operations or those seeking greater income to maintain their ongoing viability.

I would happily forgive you for any grumpiness if you pointed me to a 2lb roach!

rubio said:

I would happily forgive you for any grumpiness if you pointed me to a 2lb roach!

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I could but I won't.:wh

I've been asked about the size of carp available it two waters that I fish, (and this by 'passers by') and when told 'nothing over 20lbs' you could almost hear the groan ! In fact I suggest it's a good ploy to downplay the size of fish caught.................

I think something of the learning has gone forever, simply because of the info available from every media outlet that, generally speaking, suggests instant success. Sadly, IMHO they will never experience the 'learning' in gradual steps that I experienced as a lad and then as a teenager via club coach outings and the like, but perhaps some of that is nostalgia on my part.....................Rose tinted specs and all that jazz....

No, not grumpy John, just realistic, sadly.....


ps Not so fast Rubio !! I'm definitely first in the queue for that one !!

To be fair, I was actually one of those kids once.

My dad introduced me to fishing with my brother and it was Gudgeon, Bullhead and Roach/Rudd on the cards, canal it was, I was about 7.
The Grand prize then was rumours of 2lb Perch (saw a 1 3/4lb and thought that was massive) and the odd unstoppable one (Carp?).

I spent the next few years fishing the canal with my bro and met some old guys who were always keen to chat and help us catch something, they virtually lived on that stretch, it was fun times and even though I never really took in what they were saying nor knew them by name I miss them.
These old timers did however sow a seed that wasn't to properly sprout long after I was out of the area, heavily dormant it allowed me to survive the Carp craze that kids at my high school, coupled with peer pressure and social acceptance failed to leave its mark on me.


Fishing on balanced tackle.:w

The low point was retrieving a small Chub on a 2.75tc Carp rod mg:

In all my fishing ignorance I've learned only a few things about fishing, learning how much enjoyment I got from catching a 2lb+ Perch on 3lb line for the first time on a whippy little picker or the time I was fishing for Dace and Trout came into the swim and after that my first Grayling appeared only for a large Chub to give the swim the kiss of death......all on balanced tackle, or the topedo from pear mill on medium feeder quivver tip, felt under gunned that time..the funniest was at Birch House in Derby, loads of Carp anglers sitting around Osprey, been there all day, no bites, nothing, this idiot here turned up with one hour till dark, first cast....birds nested my reel (put to much on it night before)....got a few laughs off the no biters and dusted myself off and tried again....second cast, margin knowing full well they suck the **** out of the rushes hour before dusk before daddy wakes up that everyone leaves, took the prawn straight away....my first Carp and a load of Carp anglers wondering how I did it........was it the swivel, the hook, the line, the reel, the rod, the water temp, the socks I was wearing....it was a prawn my son!

Half the new breed of carp fishermen dont even know what plumbing the depth is. Or the marginal shelf.

Overstocked commercials dont help. They can just rock up and catch. No watercraft needed.

A while back my friends and I were catching plenty on float fished bread in a commercial.. Tench and roach mainly if I remember rightly. A circa 12 year old came over who had been carp fishing with all the gear, bite alarms etc, he looked like he was planning a moon landing but, hadn't had a bite all morning..
Anyway, I lent him a float, plummet, some shot and some bread, he came back 5 mins later, could I help him put it together, hadn't a clue. So, I did this on one of his carp rods. he started getting bites and fish. he was over the moon, happy as Larry.
Perhaps that's what they need, just someone to show them.
And kids, starters, need to catch some fish, short on patience usually and carp fishing can be the most tedious fishing. I don't know why they start on this. I wouldn't start a youngun on this.

markg said:

I wouldn't start a youngun on this.

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I totally agree.
But on the other hand, you dont want to start someone on a overstuffed commi(cal), where you turn up and catch, regardless of rigs, bait, depth etc.

I have a confession to make. I have never caught a Carp and apart from a few unsuccessful attempts as a teenager, I have never really targeted them. There is a huge chunk of my life that I was not fishing in, that I am catching up on now and to be honest the pursuit of Carp is very low on my list of ambitions. That is not to say that I dislike those that pursue Carp as they have undoubtedly made some novel additions to tactics, baits etc. I have had one trip only to a commercial and I realise that they will not all be the same, but have to say that I did not overly enjoy it. The amount of discarded tackle was astonishing. From one swim I picked up yards of line of various breaking strains, a pole float and some camouflage shot. It was one of the rare occasions when my son accompanied me and he soon got bored catching small Roach on a waggler and we ended up leaving early. The money was collected within the first half hour of our arrival and apart from a brief warning about not leaving maggots in the rubbish bin, that was our only contact with the owner. I confess that I am heavily biased towards rivers as that is where I went as a kid and would rather pit my limited experience against the fish there than in a still water. It is a purely personal thing and each to his or her own, but I too agree that an education in watercraft and appreciation of surroundings would certainly stand some beginners in better stead and perhaps get them to be lifelong anglers. You only have to see the number of people selling full carping outfits on ebay to realise that for some it will only be a passing phase of their life, from which they move on to other things.

The first rule of fishing is (arguably) - find out where the fish are. So I suppose people are going to try to find shortcuts via forums like this.
I am quite happy if most anglers go to commercial fisheries where they have the best chance to catch (mainly) carp. That way they are not on the river or the more challenging stillwaters which is where I want to go fishing. On the Dorset Stour I am always amazed at how many miles of river are hardly ever fished and this is absolutely fine by me.
(except we could do with a few more people to scare the cormorants off!)

It is a sign of the times, not just angling. People want instant fame and recognition. If ten or twenty years ago someone said that they had caught a 50lb carp you would have assumed that they were a top class angler who had spent a lot of time and effort into locating and catching such a specimen. And you would have to toast his gonads to get to know the location or get access. Now, you just have to go on the Internet, book in to the right water and put the recommended bait in front of a fish that has been specifically stocked for your amusement.

There is a lake nearby that has two 60lb+ carp in four acres. The owner feeds a specific type of boilie day in and day out throughout the year. Their website is full of successful anglers holding one or other of these fish. These guys can boast at having caught a sixty. Are they anglers or raffle ticket winners?

john step said:

I joined the 21st century and bought a laptop and joined FM rather late in 2012.
The following may have been going on for much longer of course but I get the impression that more and more new anglers want instant results for pike, perch,zander you name it without learning the basics and learning watercraft/location etc.
Lately there seems to be more requests for information on " where can I catch large......etc". Almost what swim sometimes.
Maybe its the influence of anglers starting out now on heavy stocked commercials and expecting big catches from the word go.

I woudn't dream of asking someone where they caught their big fish from as in most circumstances they had probably served their apprentiship and done their time research and spent their hard earned cash in doing so.
As my heading says... Is it me being grumpy...Too grumpy???

Click to expand...

No need to be grumpy, as an upbeat type I very seldom am, merely packing a small, recently developed ground-to-air missile system in my daypack when I am fishing certain "sensitive" stretches of river these days, as you never know who might be looking.

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law said:

I totally agree.
But on the other hand, you dont want to start someone on a overstuffed commi(cal), where you turn up and catch, regardless of rigs, bait, depth etc.

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I never quite understand why one angler feels the need to have a pop at another , just enjoy your fishing however you do it.

law said:

I totally agree.
But on the other hand, you dont want to start someone on a overstuffed commi(cal), where you turn up and catch, regardless of rigs, bait, depth etc.

Click to expand...

I understand what you are saying here, and it may be appropriate for some "commercial" fisheries, but i have fished a few where this scenario was certainly not the case. I remember fishing one and catching carp regularly with sweet corn and a waggler, nothing huge (largest approx 6lb). A few hard core carpers did ask me what i was doing, but i don't remember any that changed their hook bait? Maybe they waited until i left