what defines a "silver fish"

fishperch · Dec 22, 2014

ok so the matches require a separate keepnet for silver fish nd a different one for carp, so where do perch and tench go? corect me if im wrong but silver fish r cruician carp, roach, rudd etc

sam vimes · Dec 22, 2014

It depends on the match/fishery concerned. It seems that the most common definition for many commercial/match fisheries is that silver fish are anything other than carp.

peter crabtree · Dec 22, 2014

Some of the 'silvers only' matches I fish allow crucians, goldfish and F1's.
But not carp

David Dalton · Dec 23, 2014

Out of interest, where did this term "silver fish" originate? It seemed to come out of nowhere and then become very widespread.

sam vimes · Dec 23, 2014

David Dalton said:
Out of interest, where did this term "silver fish" originate? It seemed to come out of nowhere and then become very widespread.

I remember using the word silvers, meaning roach, rudd, bream (usually skimmers) and dace, thirty years back. Where or when it started being used the way it is now, I've no idea.

Tee-Cee · Dec 23, 2014

Don't recall the word ' silvers ' until relatively recent times...From my youth the only word I remember being used regularly was ' Goer's ' and that applied to ALL fish for weigh-in during club matches...
Min. sizes : 8" for roach, 7" for dace, 12" for bream etc etc., so, for example, if you caught a 9" roach it was good for weighing..

Silvers ? no, I don't ever remember hearing the word in my neck of the woods

laguna · Dec 23, 2014

David Dalton said:
Out of interest, where did this term "silver fish" originate? It seemed to come out of nowhere and then become very widespread.

I seem to remember Mark Wintle saying it originated in the 70's around Birmingham and the Black Country by canal anglers to denote 'roach and tiddlers'. Its pretty much synonymous these days to mean all small 'silver' fish like roach, rudd, dace etc.

Or Water-sheep as Izaak would call them referring to the roaches, not to be confused of course with the *astard breed of Roach meaning rudd.
The Compleat Angler, by Izaak Walton

robertroach · Dec 23, 2014

I always think it's a bit of an insult to roach, rudd etc. to call them all silverfish. I would rather catch them than carp any day. Is it a term carp anglers use for anything other than carp and therefore unimportant?

Ray Roberts · Dec 23, 2014

robertroach said:
I always think it's a bit of an insult to roach, rudd etc. to call them all silverfish. I would rather catch them than carp any day. Is it a term carp anglers use for anything other than carp and therefore unimportant?

I don't think so. I seem to remember it coming from the match angling world and wasn't meant as a term of derision but as a way of defining the target species or catch.

Mark Wintle · Dec 23, 2014

The term came about on two types of venues; the canals where the match anglers were fishing for gudgeon and ruffe or 'silver fish' ie roach and small skimmers, and on waters like the Nene where the choice was eels, bream or silver fish again ie roach, silver bream, skimmers. I'm not a fan of the term especially as it has got so confused.

rich4930 · Dec 23, 2014

In Germany they're called Weissfische (won't insult anybody's intelligence by offering a translation) and it's an everyday word, nothing to do with fishing. But even in German, I've never really understood where the boundary is, tench being a very good example. I expect the origin of silver fish is similar, although I must admit it's not a term I remember from my fishing days back in the 80s/90s. The only silverfish I remember was a very cool grunge/indie band, from Scotland

Teabreak · Dec 23, 2014

Can someone tell me what an F1 is. Seen it used a lot but have no idea

sam vimes · Dec 23, 2014

teabreak said:
Can someone tell me what an F1 is. Seen it used a lot but have no idea

An F1 is a cross between a crucian and a (king) carp. F1 hybrid - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia F1 is a hybridisation term that can apply to any species.

They look like a standard carp but don't have the four barbules of a (king) carp. Match/commercial fisheries quite like them as they tend not to grow too big (5lb or so). They also seem to feed well in colder temperatures

MRWELL · Dec 23, 2014

Yes a Hybrid of a Crucian and Common carp,hardy fish and never grow to a great size,they don't breed (so i am told) so you can control the amount you have much more and more to the match Anglers way.

Stan

chub_on_the_block · Dec 23, 2014

First F1s i ever saw in the mid 1980s were in water famed for its true crucians (Witley Park) where there were also a few old Leney-type commons. F1s are everywhere now. As much a threat to true crucian populations as the brown goldfish and their associated hybrids are. Give me true crucians or true carp any day.

laguna · Dec 23, 2014

I was given to understand that a few triploided F1's actually do end up fertile but are very very rare... rarer than a hen with nashers being **** on by a bird in a cuckoo clock. I also heard some talk a few years ago about F2s (second generation hybrids), not sure if these exist but I would imagine they would only be from natural spawning...

fishperch · Dec 23, 2014

so if i catch perch or tench, do they go in the silver fish keepnet or the carp

sam vimes · Dec 23, 2014

fishperch said:
so if i catch perch or tench, do they go in the silver fish keepnet or the carp

It's dependant on the rules of the individual fishery concerned. However, most of the fisheries I've enountered, regardless of the logic of it, deem everything other than carp to be silvers.

fishperch · Dec 23, 2014

sam vimes said:
It's dependant on the rules of the individual fishery concerned. However, most of the fisheries I've enountered, regardless of the logic of it, deem everything other than carp to be silvers.

okk thank you

robertroach · Dec 24, 2014

Just to avoid confusion, all fish should be called by their proper names except for all the different types of carp which should be called "brownfish" (from the German "braunfisch").

what defines a "silver fish"

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