Shock leaders

At roughly what length cast would you need to use a shock leader for a 3oz lead and 16lb mono? can you get away with not using one for casts below 70-80 yards?

Also heard the you should use lead weight x 8 for shock leader strength in lbs... does this also apply at mid range distance?

Firstly it depends on the diameter of 16lb mono eg 12lb big game has dia of .35mm and breaks around 16lb soI now buy my line by diameter so for general fishing up to 80yds i use .35-.37 depending on brand and as I am not compression casting or unitech casting I personally dont bother with shoack leaders up to 80yds for over that I drop the diameter to .3-.32 which is 10-12 lb bs depending on brand and these tend to break around 14lb then shock leaders come in to play. The type of shock leader is also another mine field.with braid such as quick silver being popular if you use this you may want to practise with it because of the zero stretch you may have to alter your casting style. Then there are the tapered leaders from fox esp and diawa I've used them all and find that the fox ones are most user friendly the esp one are probably the toughest but they dont come on a spool so nightmare to sort out. If you want to use straight mono then 20lb berkley xt which i've found to break at around 27lb is a good allround leader. The only time I use a leader for less than 80yd is when fishing across mussel beds and gravel bars then quicksilver rules!! the lead to leader strength is about right don't forget rig safty when using leaders korda or fox clips or running leads hope this helps rob

Thanks rob for your help, looks like i'll get on the quicksilver... can you recommend a particular mono over any others? i've just got new baitrunners in and want to load them with something which breaks at 15-18lb, any favs? you mention big game 0.35, worth getting? pat

also, any special strength knots for tying leaders, or just the standard 'leader knot'? mainly thinking of spodding/marking here...

I like Suffix Synergy,i use 8,12 and 18lbs.Maybe the 12 would suit your purposes.
I use a sea anglers leader knot.This is a half hitch/granny knot in the leader material and a 6 or 8 turn grinner or uni- knot in the mainline.I trim the ends close and then apply superglue for peace of mind.
It can help to place the leader knot at the back of the reel spool for casting.

main line is very much a personal choice often based on inuedndo and hearsay as much as personal experience. over the last 5 years ive used suffix,big game,trilene tournamount,diawa duo and shimano technium.all have their pros and cons my own preference is for technium it is very smooth casting and very tough. I have heard good reports about fox steel and pro gold.It realy is a case of paying your money and taking your choice. If you are going to do a lot of spodding then you ought to consider a tapered leader to .28 mono for a marker rod 30lb whiplash braid straight through takes some beating. If casting braid or quicksilver then a leather finger stool from hinders will save you a whole lot of pain. If you are fishing across gravel bars etc then coating your leader with granite juice is a must this will save you line damage and potential cut offs. Believe me the stuff works and i wont go to france or fish weedy lakes without it!!! As for knots then the mahin knot is my fav it takes practice but is one of the strongest knots to use. The easiest is the one steve recommends. On the back of esp or fox packaging these knots are illustrated. Pat the issue of shock or snag/rubbing leaders is probably an article in itself. If you can find some old carp fishers then John Carver wrote the difinitive (in my opinion) series on long distance casting covering rigs line leaders etc hope this helps

cheers rob (and steve), been a great help

What's granite juice..? I'm not a carper but I'd be interested in anything which toughens braid up - I presume it stiffens it as well, so you only use it on the last few yards.

Granite juice is a line coating from kryston it is odourless and DOES NOT stiffen the line in anyway .All one does is put a few drops on fingers and run up your line for as long as you feel you need or put some on a piece of rag and reel your line through. On braid you will need a bit more and allow a couple of minutes to soak in. you should re apply every day i reapply every 6 or 7 casts depending on conditions. To give you any example of how effective it is a friend and i suffered in france 7 cut offs in 8 takes one night the swims we we fishing were not snaggy but there was a slight drop off of 12" covered in zebra mussels after using granite juice in the morning we caught 17 carp to mid thirties over the next 3 nights without any further losses. I dont leave home without it

Rob, if i was fishing over gravel with sink rig tubing behind my safety lead, how long do you recommend the tubing should be and would you still apply any granite juice behind that? I guess for playing fish in very snaggy waters it's useful to have a good rod length's protected? Also, is granite juice that critical if you're just selectively fishing gravel bars with general clay/silt bottom around them? any advice appreciated - cheers

I generally use about 30" of tubing for all my fishing as granite juice doesn't affect casting I coat the whole of the leader if I'm using one or about 30' of main line if not. As for gravel bars it really depends on the shape of the bar and size of the bars but better safe than sorry. I think big rik has an article on the site about snag fishing. there is a big difference between fishing to snags as opposed to fishing in snags!! Also if you are fishing weedy waters then you should treat the weed like gravel bars becuase weed is usually as abrasive as gravel etc and in some cases more so.