The Effects of Anglers Baits.

cg74 · Jan 8, 2015

As the title says; what are the effects of anglers baits; primarily to fish but also to the aquatic ecosystem as a whole.

I quite regularly hear and read about fish weights being artificially inflated as a result of fish eating pellets and boilies. But look at **** Walker's record breaking carp of 44lb, it was caught well before the advent of high protein baits. Plus when looking at King carp, you must bear in mind, they're a product of human intervention.

I know of 3lb+ roach, 8lb+ chub, 12lb+ tench and 16lb+ bream that have never seen even a handful of anglers bait.

There are of course issues created as a result of excessive quantities of bait going uneaten and decomposing....

But on the whole do our baits help or hinder the environments we throw them in to?

bullet · Jan 8, 2015

In the grand scheme of things, taking all factors into account , I doubt they make much difference.

rubio · Jan 9, 2015

I can't imagine a situation on natural venues where food would go to waste, even if only snails ate it. In a pool without weed and cover we often hear of piles of wasted bait, and layers of fatty sludge along the bottom. I guess the smaller and more contained an environment is it will be relatively easy to shift the normal balance of life within. I'm far too tight to throw massive amounts of bait in and typically fish where others aren't. In my situation I hope to influence any fish present to believe my bait looks and smells like something good to eat. Occasionally I prebait and look to hold fish along a stretch of river. Mostly with hemp and corn. This on predominantly smaller slow flowing rivers. Incidentally I often find this works well if I plan a piking stint.
Ultimately any effect has to be temporary of course but over the short term I believe I can provide a focus food source that improves my catches. Such as they are. I carry on believing it even when I get a run of poor sessions. Well you have to be positive or you just wouldn't get off the sofa.

The bad one · Jan 9, 2015

Bloody hell Colin that's some question! It's like asking the meaning of life? Should prove interesting to see how it unravels

blackout · Jan 9, 2015

Well some of the carp bellys dont look too well on anglers bait but other fish species seem to bulk out better all over in proportion. Like expectency is probably poor on commies compare to wild stocks rarely fished and small waters become easily poluted especially in summer with oil slicks and poor water quality causes stress to fish.

hinder but you cant blame me I use single baits

keora · Jan 9, 2015

Look at this report from the Institute of Fisheries Management:

http://www.ifm.org.uk/sites/default/files/page/Still Waters Codes of Practice.pdf

Here's an extract from it:

Many stillwater coarse fisheries support greater fish stocks than would occur in a natural situation,
resulting from both stocking and from supplementary feed in the form of bait. Often termed commercial
or intensive coarse fisheries these waters can provide consistently good sport for anglers and
increased income for fishery owners. However these fisheries are not natural. High stock densities
and the bait needed to sustain them can degrade the water environment. This in itself can have
consequences for the welfare of the fish but in addition these coarse fisheries may be subject to
intensive fishing pressure. Because of these factors, intensive coarse fisheries require careful
management.

no-one in particular · Jan 9, 2015

I imagine all that ground bait does not get eaten when the fish are not feeding in hot weather/water temperatures. It must decompose quite quickly increasing bacteria in the water which also use up the oxygen that fish need. Fish deaths are more common in hot weather especially big carp I believe; I feel this does not help.
I think it is possible that more harm is done to fish in say, the month of August; than if we fished in any month of the close season.

cg74 · Jan 9, 2015

The bad one said:
Bloody hell Colin that's some question! It's like asking the meaning of life? Should prove interesting to see how it unravels

It is a big un but like you said; "should prove interesting"

---------- Post added at 13:06 ---------- Previous post was at 12:48 ----------

rubio said:
I can't imagine a situation on natural venues where food would go to waste, even if only snails ate it. In a pool without weed and cover we often hear of piles of wasted bait, and layers of fatty sludge along the bottom. I guess the smaller and more contained an environment is it will be relatively easy to shift the normal balance of life within. I'm far too tight to throw massive amounts of bait in and typically fish where others aren't. In my situation I hope to influence any fish present to believe my bait looks and smells like something good to eat. Occasionally I prebait and look to hold fish along a stretch of river. Mostly with hemp and corn. This on predominantly smaller slow flowing rivers. Incidentally I often find this works well if I plan a piking stint.
Ultimately any effect has to be temporary of course but over the short term I believe I can provide a focus food source that improves my catches. Such as they are. I carry on believing it even when I get a run of poor sessions. Well you have to be positive or you just wouldn't get off the sofa.

Even if our baits only served to increase the quantity of molluscs present in a fishery, that's one effect. That then leads to another effect; molluscs form a major part of the natural diet for both roach and barbel - therefore offering the potential for one or both (if present) to increase in terms numbers and/or size?

---------- Post added at 13:15 ---------- Previous post was at 13:06 ----------

blackout said:
Well some of the carp bellys dont look too well on anglers bait but other fish species seem to bulk out better all over in proportion. Like expectency is probably poor on commies compare to wild stocks rarely fished and small waters become easily poluted especially in summer with oil slicks and poor water quality causes stress to fish.

hinder but you cant blame me I use single baits

Is the conformation of carp mainly as a result of genetic selection by humans?

Baits causing water pollution is an obvious negative effect but I'm not looking to attribute blame to anyone for anything.

bennygesserit · Jan 9, 2015

Logically you would probably say , as far as rivers go , that additional food in the form of bait must have a positive effect on fish stocks , though that is a simplistic view, but whether there is enough of an effect to be significant , compared to the other factors contributing towards the other natural cycles in the biomass is more difficult to decide. I suppose to know that you would need to know the size and type of natural food compared to the amount of feed going in.
From Mavericks thread the consensus seemed to be that rivers are fishing better than ever and yet there are far fewer anglers on the bank so there must be many different factors at play.

In a river I would say well tested food probably has a positive effect on fish population in still waters , particularly small heavily fished commercial ponds I think it might be the opposite.

cg74 · Jan 9, 2015

keora said:
Look at this report from the Institute of Fisheries Management:

http://www.ifm.org.uk/sites/default/files/page/Still Waters Codes of Practice.pdf

Here's an extract from it:

Many stillwater coarse fisheries support greater fish stocks than would occur in a natural situation,
resulting from both stocking and from supplementary feed in the form of bait. Often termed commercial
or intensive coarse fisheries these waters can provide consistently good sport for anglers and
increased income for fishery owners. However these fisheries are not natural. High stock densities
and the bait needed to sustain them can degrade the water environment. This in itself can have
consequences for the welfare of the fish but in addition these coarse fisheries may be subject to
intensive fishing pressure. Because of these factors, intensive coarse fisheries require careful
management.

It's alright to bring up the ills of 'Commercial Fisheries' but lets not forget our rivers; it often strikes me that certain areas of the Wye and formally the Teme have/had fish biomasses way beyond a sustainable level?

itsfishingnotcatching · Jan 9, 2015

My thoughts are that the effects will be pretty negligible on rivers, if only because less people fish them than pools and even bait "dumped" at the end of a session is dispersed over a far greater area.

The monitoring of food levels in pools must surely remain the remit of the owner who will know, or be able to estimate, the amount of food entering the water based on the number of anglers in attendance.

Much has been made of the Match v Carp angler in previous threads yet from my (limited) experience of both genres, each tends to use more bait in terms of loose feeding than the average pleasure angler (probably not the best description!). A large number of fisheries impose limits on the amount of bait that can be used, so it appears the pool owners are regulating the food supply already.

Hell of a topic

thecrow · Jan 9, 2015

This is taken from a piece written by John Baker, someone who's knowledge on bait I respect.

In recent years high oil content pellets have proved to be one of the leading baits on the coarse fishing scene. In particular salmon pellets and halibut pellets. The danger and concerns of using these baits to excess has been discussed before. In fact, it was more than 10 years ago that many angling clubs and organisations banned their use. It is a fact that the excessive high oil content of these pellets will damage the digestive systems of carp, tench, chub and barbel. After all, about 85% of all commercially made fish feed pellets are designed for trout, salmon and other marine species they not formulated for coarse fish! It may shock many anglers to hear that the oil content of many trout and salmon pellets is up to 20% and the oil content in halibut and marine pellets is up to 46%!

Coarse fish have a totally different mode of digestion, as well as having different nutritional requirements to other species. When we throw our high-oil pellet freebies into the rivers and lakes we are often doing so without knowledge of what other bait is being introduced to the venue. Unlike a fish farm, we have no control over the quantities of food the fish are eating! It may surprise some anglers to know, that just one small handful of halibut pellets can provide a 10lb barbel or carp with most of its nutritional requirements for a week! If more than this amount of free offerings is introduced, it can seriously affect the metabolism of fish. It’s a bit like eating a curry every evening, it would soon make us fat, as well as seriously upsetting our stomachs too!

Over the years fish weights have increased with some species reaching weights that are far above what could have been imagined, I believe that some of this gain is fat, Barbel from some rivers where lots of pellets are introduced into hot swims possibly fished 4/5 times each week have a large gut that Barbel of many years ago did not have whereas Barbel from lightly fished rivers have in my experience retained the sleek classic shape of a Barbel, the fat that these fish carry could be shortening their lives.

jasonbean1 · Jan 9, 2015

I don't know wether my heads working right? But did the monument fishery recently drain down, remove uneaten boilies and remove there so called underwater features.....because the catch rate had dropped?

Or was it one of those weird dreams I've been having lately

terry m · Jan 9, 2015

The idea of huge underwater mountains - or even hillocks - composed of uneaten boilies is frankly preposterous.

Most uneaten boilies will float to the surface as they start to rot, and they will be easy picking for tufties.

If you consider the volumes of water that are found typically in a medium large gravel pit, or an estate lake, they are huge.

There may be a risk with small venues such as farm ponds, but those venues are not likely to attract the 'spod in the munga' merchants.

sam vimes · Jan 9, 2015

jasonbean1 said:
I don't know wether my heads working right? But did the monument fishery recently drain down, remove uneaten boilies and remove there so called underwater features.....because the catch rate had dropped?

Or was it one of those weird dreams I've been having lately

Jason,
I'd not heard the bit about removing uneaten bait.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0h7DYJKG2M

greenie62 · Jan 9, 2015

sam vimes said:
I'd not heard the bit about removing uneaten bait.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0h7DYJKG2M

Well found Sam,
Interesting to see the 'de-construction' of the original features they'd built into the lake to start with - sort of 'unrelandscaping' - can't help but feel they're trying to turn it into a featureless puddle - with the only variation in feeding areas provided by the differing grades of shale left in the mud!

Not saying it's wrong - just wouldn't attract me too much! - still guess they know their market!

thecrow · Jan 9, 2015

Why not just concrete the place

sam vimes · Jan 9, 2015

greenie62 said:
Well found Sam,
Interesting to see the 'de-construction' of the original features they'd built into the lake to start with - sort of 'unrelandscaping' - can't help but feel they're trying to turn it into a featureless puddle - with the only variation in feeding areas provided by the differing grades of shale left in the mud!

Not saying it's wrong - just wouldn't attract me too much! - still guess they know their market!

The size of the fish in such a place appeals, but that's pretty much all that does. The thought of having to book a swim weeks or months in advance, and being tied to it regardless of the conditions, leaves me cold.

laguna · Jan 9, 2015

Yes it was in Angling Times but didn't get to read it myself, still have the Xmas bumper edition to read (I've only read Christian Barkers (Chav) piece on chub addiction).

------
Did anyone get to read the recent report commissioned by the Barbel Society? In it they reckon that the population explosion of barbel over recent years was/is as a direct result of anglers bait and signals. Unfortunately the numbers present now seem to be in decline due to increased predation, no doubt attracted by fish density.

---------- Post added at 19:26 ---------- Previous post was at 18:48 ----------

Agree entirely Crow. I would also add that glugs made from propylene glycol (C3H8O2) commonly used as a carrier of 'flavours' and aircraft anti-freeze is known to exert high levels of biochemical oxygen demand (BOD) during degradation in surface waters. This process can adversely affect aquatic life by consuming oxygen needed by aquatic organisms for survival. Large quantities of dissolved oxygen (DO) in the water column are consumed when microbial populations decompose propylene glycol.

Nobby C (ACA) · Jan 9, 2015

I have never witnessed uneaten boilies floating on the surface at any point in my angling life. Is this actually correct or just another often espoused myth?

The Effects of Anglers Baits.

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