When fly fishin isn't

alsoran · Mar 16, 2015

Ok got to thinking about this one the other day. A little history first, a good few years ago now I used to 'Yew Tree Tarn' in the lake district, the controlling club had a fly only rule, yet one chap was always fishing with a match rod, waggler with a 4' or 5' leader with whatever 'fly' he fancied attached to the end. Needless to say he caught lots of fish partly down to the fact of the restricted back cast space that he didn't need to worry about.

So with the current LRF/Drop shot fishing craze that seems to be growing, I was wondering if today you could get away with your drop rod and a fly tied on the end of a leader, even with one of the in line weights you can get. So you would be in effect fishing the 'split shot' rig, which is used a lot in the states to catch trout etc..

So what dictates what is fly only, the bait?? The line?? the rod?? As it does seem that it could be a grey area..

S-Kippy · Mar 16, 2015

Its a very interesting question and I really dont know the answer. I suspect if I turned up on my local ressie with a float rod and cast 3 flies under a big loaded waggler I'd be challenged...but equally I suspect I might not actually be breaking any rules. I'm not bait fishing, I'm not spinning,I'm not ledgering and I'm using flies.

I rather think I'd catch a few fish too cos I could bang a big waggler out a lot further than I could cast a fly and there are times when distance is everything. Whether I'd actually want to is a different matter.

nicepix · Mar 16, 2015

I have use PTNs and GRHEs under stick floats for roach, grayling and trout to good effect. Also used buzzers under a waggler and caught perch and roach. When you think about it presenting an artificial fly using conventional coarse float tactics makes a lot of sense. If you fish buzzers under a floating fly line you aren't anywhere near as certain what depth they are at and then they only pass through the feeding zone. Whereas suspending them under a float allows you to better search the depth and then once you've found them, keep your flies in the zone. Using a waggler is a lot easier than suspending them under a bung and having the flies drift unnaturally due to the wind drag on the fly line IMO.

peter crabtree · Mar 16, 2015

A good friend of mine ties his own flies and fishes with them on the canal..
He uses a top two rig on his pole with just a tapered leader attached..
His most successful fly is without doubt the ' Early bluebottle'
He has also had some success on his 'Breadfly'
He also uses a beautifully tied ' pellet fly ' made from deer fur.
Beezlys of Chalfont do a lovely bloodworm fly, well worth a try on the 16m line close to the far bank on those really hard days....

nicepix · Mar 16, 2015

The Warburton's Fancy, Jolly Green Giant and Deer Hair Pellè flies have long been popular oop norf.

S-Kippy · Mar 16, 2015

The Blackbird's Fancy is a reliable voice too.

Seriously.....there are those that argue that fishing flies under an indicator is float fishing ( the infamous bung) and I suppose it is. Its a quite devastating way of presenting buzzers in particular and I do a lot of it with a perfectly clear conscience. Mechanically (?) There is no difference in the two methods but they are quite different in practice. The Bung is generally accepted bar the dissenting purists but I wonder what the reaction would be if you were to fish a bung on a 13 ft match rod and fs reel. Quite different I suspect.

Yes I know you can't cast a bung like a loaded float but you can sit on a boat and drift it out on the wind or drop it in the margins where there are plenty of fish to be caught.....I would think over half of my reservoir troot are hooked no more than 10 ft out.

peter crabtree · Mar 16, 2015

S-Kippy said:
...I would think over half of my reservoir troot are hooked no more than 10 ft out.

Are they the ones you catch in Scotland?

john step · Mar 16, 2015

peter crabtree said:
Are they the ones you catch in Scotland?

I thought whats he on about...Scotland....then the penny dropped!!!!!!!!!!

S-Kippy · Mar 17, 2015

I often think "what's he on about" ! I'm sorry when I said troot I naturally meant trite of course. This is Buckinghamshire doncha know !

no-one in particular · Mar 17, 2015

So, If I went fishing for trout on the river using a float and some flies underneath it in the close season and those flies were definitely more like chub flies and I "accidentally" caught some chub; would I be breaking the law? Would "I was trout fishing Your Honour"-wash?

greenie62 · Mar 17, 2015

markg said:
So, If I went fishing for trout on the river using a float and some flies underneath it in the close season and those flies were definitely more like chub flies and I "accidentally" caught some chub; would I be breaking the law? Would "I was trout fishing Your Honour"-wash?

Hi Mark,
I think your seat-box and keep-net would be more of a give-away!

mg:

robertroach · Mar 17, 2015

I am quite sure it is a lot more effective to use a match rod/fixed spool/waggler/bubble float outfit for fly fishing for trout but why would you want to?
My local trout fishing is a reservoir and a small club lake and I like to flyfish in the coarse close season. If I buy a 2 fish ticket I don't want to catch 2 fish straight away because then I have to go home.
The pleasure in fly fishing is in the satisfaction from the skill in casting a line and presenting a fly (and maybe tying your own fly). Make it too easy and you lose half the fun.

no-one in particular · Mar 17, 2015

greenie62 said:
Hi Mark,
I think your seat-box and keep-net would be more of a give-away! mg:

With all due respect that you "may" deserve but, probably don't, Your Honour, Your Holiness, Your Lovelyness, and if your still awake-I was still only fishing for trout.

"Send that man down"

greenie62 · Mar 17, 2015

markg said:
...."Send that man down"

That's almost a let-off - If it had happened on he Royalty - it could have been "Off with his head!"

mg:

alsoran · Mar 17, 2015

Hey guys, thanks for some great answers. So it does seem like it is a bit of a grey area. I fully understand the 'fly anglers' point of view and respect it.
Surely though the only reason you need a fly line is to cast the light fly, with todays modern braids and rods it does seem to get round that problem though.

As for flies under a stick float in 'course season' I can't see why not if you said you are fishing for trout, you can't say what will take your bait. tbh as well why would you need a seatbox??? It would be more of a roving method??

As for the two fish limit, fully get that but you can still catch on a fly very quickly??? Perhaps on a 'sporting ticket' you could fish all day. Plus you can still try your own fly patterns, it is just the delivery method might be different.

An example of something to move this along a little can be watched here

https://youtu.be/uprjoLUYNL8

Alsoran...

greenie62 · Mar 17, 2015

alsoran said:
... Surely though the only reason you need a fly line is to cast the light fly, with todays modern braids and rods it does seem to get round that problem though.

As for flies under a stick float in 'course season' I can't see why not if you said you are fishing for trout, you can't say what will take your bait. tbh as well why would you need a seatbox??? It would be more of a roving method??

As for the two fish limit, fully get that but you can still catch on a fly very quickly??? Perhaps on a 'sporting ticket' you could fish all day. Plus you can still try your own fly patterns, it is just the delivery method might be different...

3 points arise from the above:

Braid doesn't really help - unless you've got the wind to help as well - and using the 'loch-style' dapping or the in-vogue Tenkara style.
Welsh bye-laws don't allow use of a float in the coarse Close Season.
Many Trout commercials don't allow catch and return after you've caught your ticket limit - you have to kill the first 2 trout caught then cease fishing or buy a new ticket!

To really complicate things - when is a 'fly' a fly and when is it a lure? - Answers on a postcard to ......

thecrow · Mar 17, 2015

greenie62 said:
If it had happened on he Royalty - it could have been "Off with his head!"

If only you knew what we used to get up to on that stretch of water, hung drawn and quartered would probably be the sentence, and no I wont put in on here.

no-one in particular · Mar 17, 2015

greenie62 said:
That's almost a let-off - If it had happened on he Royalty - it could have been "Off with his head!" mg:

I think it will try it in France in their close season on their Royalty if they still have one !

mg:

---------- Post added at 12:29 ---------- Previous post was at 12:26 ----------

thecrow said:
If only you knew what we used to get up to on that stretch of water, hung drawn and quartered would probably be the sentence, and no I wont put in on here.

Don't be shy Crow, let it all out, I am sure you wont be hung drawn and quartered by the understanding wooly, sandle wearing liberals that dominate the FM magic fraternity, eeek and we all love a good story, hee hee.

alsoran · Mar 17, 2015

Of course Braid would help Greenie62, it all depends how you set it up surely.
eg, 8lb 'Power Pro' with a 4lb 4' fluro leader PTN/GHHE on the end with a 3 or 4 grm weight 2 or 3 feet from the fly will cast like a dream at least 15/25yrds.

If you took the same set up and used a short cork cylinder wrapped in tungsten putty and balanced so it just sank the cork that too would cast well and negate the use of a float.

And like I said the method doesn't stop you catching quickly. But, it wouldn't be a problem on a 'Sporting Ticket'.

As for the 'when is a fly' point, I guess that one will rumble on for years and need a rather large postcard.

Though I suppose a fly isn't a fly when it no longer can be found in a zoological book, nymphs included.

thecrow · Mar 17, 2015

markg said:
Don't be shy Crow, let it all out, I am sure you wont be hung drawn and quartered by the understanding wooly, sandle wearing liberals that dominate the FM magic fraternity, eeek and we all love a good story, hee hee.

Shy I aint but I wont be putting myself in the firing line again on here or anywhere else although I am sure as you say everyone would be understanding.

When fly fishin isn't

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