Hitting the Eastern European problem head on, morality v’s self interest?

binka · Apr 22, 2015

This, despite the various comments of complaint in various discussions, has almost become a taboo subject as far as bold language is concerned for fear of branding one’s self with a broad brush and appearing politically incorrect, if only in an angling sense.

So…

Let’s sweep aside the taboo and firstly state that there are many legitimate and passionate EE anglers amongst us.

But let’s also not overlook the fact that the vast majority of illegal fishing in this country is being carried out by EE’s from home countries where coarse fish are part of their regular diet or countries where migrants have been illegally transported on the promise of the dream only to find themselves living off the radar in squalor.

And we have a free larder that is being pillaged.

In both cases it seems naive to believe that signs erected in foreign languages are really going to offer a deterrent to someone who is starving.

The Angling Trust have gone some way via their volunteer bailiff scheme and the promotion of the 116/11 code but my opinion is that we are fighting a losing hit and run style of war.

What’s the answer?

bennygesserit · Apr 22, 2015

what do you mean by illegal fishing ? Do you mean all forms of illegal fishing ?

laguna · Apr 23, 2015

binka said:
What’s the answer?

UKIP?
Sorry couldn't resist... education perhaps? but as you say if they (EE or whoever they are) are living off the radar, then an illegal has more to lose than getting his/her collar felt for a few fish? Unless they really are starving and living off the land, in which case they have my sympathy. I suspect the ones that are fishing illegally are perfectly legal immigrants that need an education as to the way we do things here in the UK.

nicepix · Apr 23, 2015

The answer, as in so many other cases is to properly enforce the law. Not just make laws, but to enforce them throughout the whole criminal justice system from detection and crime prevention right through CPS, Courts and Prisons. IMO every step of the criminal justice system is failing the public, mainly due to a lack of proper funding and understanding of how each element impacts on the public.

maggot_dangler · Apr 23, 2015

binka said:
This, despite the various comments of complaint in various discussions, has almost become a taboo subject as far as bold language is concerned for fear of branding one’s self with a broad brush and appearing politically incorrect, if only in an angling sense.

So…

Let’s sweep aside the taboo and firstly state that there are many legitimate and passionate EE anglers amongst us.

But let’s also not overlook the fact that the vast majority of illegal fishing in this country is being carried out by EE’s from home countries where coarse fish are part of their regular diet or countries where migrants have been illegally transported on the promise of the dream only to find themselves living off the radar in squalor.

And we have a free larder that is being pillaged.

In both cases it seems naive to believe that signs erected in foreign languages are really going to offer a deterrent to someone who is starving.

The Angling Trust have gone some way via their volunteer bailiff scheme and the promotion of the 116/11 code but my opinion is that we are fighting a losing hit and run style of war.

What’s the answer?

The one slight problem i see with your comment is that the vast majority of EE fish killers are very far from starving they all get very good state money they nearly all drive far better cars than i do or can afford . they are in the majority just thieving numpties ... many many more cold baths are very much needed ...

PG ..

flightliner · Apr 23, 2015

Education? Sorry , my daughters friend from the cheque republik came to stay at my house for a week a few years back. Returning from a days barbel fishing on the Trent midweek she enquired if I had caught any fish. "Yes, one or two nice ones" I replied. "Where are they" she enquired. "I returned them to the river to grow bigger and reproduce otherwise there wont be any left".
She then pointed a finger to her head and turned it around a few times saying"you english-crazy".
She told me her father was a fisherman and anything cuaght was placed in a salt barrel behind the house and her favourite tench were her families christmas day meal.
This from a woman with a degree from university, who speaks four differant languages, and perfect english but whose taste buds have developed a liking for course fish to ask not to eat them? Sorry, its like any one of us being asked to give up our favourite cup of tea if we went to live in outer mongolia and put up with yaks milk.

Lord Paul of Sheffield · Apr 23, 2015

tell them duck and geese taste nicer and are easier to catch

thecrow · Apr 23, 2015

NP has hit the nail on the head, nothing else will stop this other than detection and punishment, imo that punishment should be deportation of the offender.

It's a problem that has been caused by governments and the PC brigade, I wonder how long it will be before the racist accusations start?

Lord Paul of Sheffield · Apr 23, 2015

thecrow said:
NP has hit the nail on the head, nothing else will stop this other than detection and punishment, imo that punishment should be deportation of the offender.

It's a problem that has been caused by governments and the PC brigade, I wonder how long it will be before the racist accusations start?

Not from me I agree

binka · Apr 23, 2015

bennygesserit said:
what do you mean by illegal fishing ? Do you mean all forms of illegal fishing ?

I’m particularly referring to cases where coarse fish are being illegally removed from waters for the purpose of sustenance Benny.

Education has been mentioned a couple of times but I honestly don’t see this as the answer due to the fact that much of what is going on is being carried out after dark and/or using covert methods such as dead lining and in remote locations.

This suggests to me that the perpetrators already know full well that it’s wrong so are therefore educated in the respect of differing culture and the law, they are instead just continuing to do it in a more covert manner irrespective.

theartist · Apr 23, 2015

We are the weird ones for putting them back as most Easterns and Asians I know think it's bizarre. From their viewpoint it is but catch and release is the way forward for modern thinking anglers. Even in rural North America where hunting for the table is a way of life catch and release is becoming ever more popular.

We must continue to educate them that it's not sustainable in a small over populated country such as ours and it's not the way we do it. Getting foreign anglers to publicly do this is a step as is making it known as often as possible. The offspring of the immigrants will know it's taboo even is their parents take some convincing as it's a change in culture. Trouble is it's the newcomers who are worst and there's newbies arriving all the time.

I've told a few that have watched me catching that eating our fish makes your manhood shrink because of the oestragen from sewage which has been found to be true in Otters. Just laugh shake your head and ask "Do you really want to eat this?" This makes them think.

If you're lucky you may get a response by phoning the EA but failing that ring the police. Your'e a taxpayer they are there to serve the public after all and they will turn up with you're economical with the truth.

Keep spreading the word but be careful how you do it

greenie62 · Apr 23, 2015

binka said:
I’m particularly referring to cases where coarse fish are being illegally removed from waters for the purpose of sustenance Benny.

Education has been mentioned a couple of times but I honestly don’t see this as the answer due to the fact that much of what is going on is being carried out after dark and/or using covert methods such as dead lining and in remote locations.

This suggests to me that the perpetrators already know full well that it’s wrong so are therefore educated in the respect of differing culture and the law, they are instead just continuing to do it in a more covert manner irrespective.

With respect to the phrase " illegally removed from waters for the purpose of sustenance " doesn't this also include 'sponsored' anglers 'guesting' on waters or areas of waters where they are clearly not allowed? I am thinking of the incident last year which prompted a lot of coverage on this forum where a prolific angler was found to be fishing in an 'out of bounds' area and was to be prosecuted. What happened to this case? Has he been strung-up for this, yet?

Part of the 'education' problem in Binka's post is the non-visibility of consequences of breaking the law regarding poaching! If the sentences and punishments were more visible perhaps it would have a more deterrent effect.

Even attempts to 'name & shame' EA licence dodgers don't seem to have had much support from some anglers on this forum

mg: but such measures would at least make the punishments more of a deterrent.

The whole problem of illegal fishing needs a lot more looking at - not just blaming EEs - and the so-called gypsies (or as an Irish friend refers to them '****** thieving tinkers') - but ensuring our 'own house' is in order! Every time we give a nod and a wink to dubious practise is opening the door to further law-breaking and removes our right to insist that others play to rules that we are prepared to ignore when it suits us!

I find it amazing that so much illegal fishing is takng place with waters being 'cleaned out' with not a single prosecution being publicised by the likes of EA or even publicity-hungry UKIP (when they are 'grubbing' for votes).

mg:

bennygesserit · Apr 23, 2015

thecrow said:
NP has hit the nail on the head, nothing else will stop this other than detection and punishment, imo that punishment should be deportation of the offender.

It's a problem that has been caused by governments and the PC brigade, I wonder how long it will be before the racist accusations start?

Have you ever fished illegally ? Does the same apply to you ?

binka · Apr 23, 2015

greenie62 said:
I am thinking of the incident last year which prompted a lot of coverage on this forum where a prolific angler was found to be fishing in an 'out of bounds' area and was to be prosecuted. What happened to this case? Has he been strung-up for this, yet?

I think the case was adjourned around February time greenie... I may well be wrong but I have June in mind for another hearing?

greenie62 · Apr 23, 2015

binka said:
I think the case was adjourned around February time greenie... I may well be wrong but I have June in mind for another hearing?

Thus amplifying the point I made in the post - no sentencing publicity - and delays in hearings - will mean no visible deterrent effect!
He'll probably skip to avoid deportation -

- Oh! - he's a Brit!

mg:

thecrow · Apr 23, 2015

bennygesserit said:
Have you ever fished illegally ? Does the same apply to you ?

Depends on what you mean by illegally, fishing waters on the QT you know I have fished some estate waters without permission, in fact nobody had permission. to answer your question fully have I stolen the fish I catch NO used illegal methods NO, stolen fish others have paid to fish for NO, used threats of violence against lawful anglers NO, (I have experience of that) killed the fish I catch NO, left dead lines and nets in a water not caring what happens to the fish that are unfortunate to be caught on /in them.

I stand by what I said, deport them. unfortunately for you I cant be deported or even transported for fishing where I did, if that's not quite PC old thing tough.

no-one in particular · Apr 23, 2015

ignore-deleted

The bad one · Apr 23, 2015

binka said:
I think the case was adjourned around February time greenie... I may well be wrong but I have June in mind for another hearing?

Correct! And as soon as there's any news on it, you can be assured I'll bring it you

To Crow did you steal the fishing rights of the owner when did what you confess to doing?

Mark that's over two years old and has been implemented in the subsequent new national bye-laws that followed.

thecrow · Apr 23, 2015

markg said:
Found this; its not very clear, at least I am confused, nothing new there-does it suggest a ban on still waters and not rivers ? And if so why? - And if a poacher is wandering off with a bucket of 15 small fish, can he just claim they are for dead baits?
:-

The Environment Agency is asking anglers to comment on its proposal to introduce new byelaws under which anglers will reportedly face fines of up to £5,000 if they catch and remove freshwater fish including pike or carp to take home for the table. The new byelaws do not affect trout and salmon.

Adrian Taylor, Fisheries Manager at the Environment Agency, said: "Pike and grayling have historically been taken for the pot. We don't want to stop this, nor do we want to stop predator anglers catching and using bait fish. However, we do want to prevent specimen coarse fish from being taken, to protect the valuable fisheries they support, whilst giving stillwater fisheries the option to allow fish to be taken. We also need to protect threatened stocks of eel and shad. We hope these byelaws achieve the right balance.

"We need to work with the angling community to make the most of these new powers. We will guide fishery owners and clubs to provide us with prompt, accurate information on where and when people are taking fish illegally to help focus our enforcement. We also want anglers to spread the word among their peers that mandatory catch and release is now the norm."

Under the new byelaws it is proposed that anglers will only be allowed to take 15 small fish, less than 7.8in (20cm) from its Shedule 1 list which includes perch, common and crucian carp, bream and other silver fish, and for anglers to be allowed to take home one small pike less than 26in (about 5lbs) or two grayling between 12in to 15in.

However, in future it will be against the law to take an eel or shad from any river or lake and there will be a ban on removing any coarse fish species from still waters unless the fishery owner has given written permission.

The Angling Trust, which represents the country's 1.5 million anglers, is said to be delighted by the news. Mark Lloyd, a spokesman for the Trust, is reported to have said: "We have been pressing for a tougher action for years. I think the practice will be that most fisheries will stop people taking all fish. When large numbers are removed from a fishery it really has an impact on someone's enjoyment."

Mark all of the above about fish sizes only applies if the club/syndicate/ riparian owner allow it, most clubs I know of do not allow any fish to be removed.

peter crabtree · Apr 23, 2015

.....................

Hitting the Eastern European problem head on, morality v’s self interest?

binka

Guest

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

binka

Guest

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

binka

Guest

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

AKA Simon, 1953 - 2022 (RIP)