Otters?

robertroach · Jul 21, 2015

The other day I was fishing one of my usual swims on the Upper Dorset Stour and I was distracted from looking at my float by a loud fizzing or hissing noise.
I looked round to see a wave, almost like a miniature breaking surfwave zigzag across the whole river from one side to the other at great speed.
What was left was a foamy trail on the surface of the water. I saw the same thing before a couple of years ago on the same river.
All I can think it could be is an otter chasing a fish, but how can it move so fast?
Anyone seen anything like it?

hyperdrive · Jul 21, 2015

robertroach said:
The other day I was fishing one of my usual swims on the Upper Dorset Stour and I was distracted from looking at my float by a loud fizzing or hissing noise.
I looked round to see a wave, almost like a miniature breaking surfwave zigzag across the whole river from one side to the other at great speed.
What was left was a foamy trail on the surface of the water. I saw the same thing before a couple of years ago on the same river.
All I can think it could be is an otter chasing a fish, but how can it move so fast?
Anyone seen anything like it?

One of the places I go you occasionally see one and they can move quicker than you might expect.
I have heard a story of someone fishing the same area and an otter was watching from the opposite bank and waiting for him to catch something before launching it's attack. Don't know if it was a freak incident or if the otter had learnt that the fish are easier to catch when someone has it tethered

Pete Shears · Jul 21, 2015

Mink are not afraid of anglers, I have had them hiss at me & advance along the staging towards me. They also can leave a trail of bubbles when swimming underwater.

tigger · Jul 21, 2015

Pete Shears said:
Mink are not afraid of anglers, I have had them hiss at me & advance along the staging towards me. They also can leave a trail of bubbles when swimming underwater.

Hissing....are you sure it wasn't a snake ?

robertroach · Jul 22, 2015

No, not a snake - moving too fast. It was the breaking wave in the water making a noise - quite spooky really.

seth49 · Jul 22, 2015

The thing that struck me when I first saw one was how fast they could swim underwater, went across the ribble nr clitheroe in seconds.
They do leave a trail of bubbles,and a bow wave if nr the surface.
Never saw one till about two years ago, now see them often.
Last time was when I was sea trout fishing last Saturday night.was ok til it turned up.
Pool went dead after.?

flightliner · Jul 22, 2015

A fortnight ago on countryfile there was a woman in Derbyshire who took in otters to her sactuary.
She also had a breeding pair of giant american otters that were two metres long from nose to tail.
She said as soon as their offspring were ready for the wild she was releasing them.
I was spitting rusty nails at the tv screen!!.
How stupid can people be?.

Bob Hornegold · Jul 22, 2015

There are those who don't think Otters take fish, but having fished the Upper Ouse and the Ivel I know better.

The silly thing is, the EA I believe funded the Otter Trust and when there are NO fish left in the rivers where will they get their revenue from ?

I know that there are some conservationists who like to see an end to angling, but it seems a strange way of going about it.

And when there is nothing left in the rivers worth fishing for and the still waters are a shadow of their formers selves we will be left with small still waters that can be Otter fenced.

I never thought I would see it in my life time, but I have and it's a sickening sight to see wonderful Barbel killed by animals put there by people who must have known what the result would be without controls !!

Bob

tigger · Jul 22, 2015

Otters are indiginous Bob and they certainly won't reach large numbers as they're very territorial. Lets face it the amount of otters across the country is tiny.

I'm amazed at how people see a dead fish andinstantly blame otters, and it's gott'a be the biggest fish in the river as otters only seem to target the biggest.

I'm no tree hugger but lets be realistic, there are far more serious threats to fish stocks than a few otters scatterd across the country.

It's funny how many of these people promote the stocking of invasive species, some of which will eat more in a day than an otter will eat in a week or more....wels catfish for example. There seems to be far more of those invaders cropping up across the country. Just think how many are caught and the capture keep quiet about it.

sam vimes · Jul 22, 2015

I've suspected for a while that perceptions of otters change drastically depending on location. I live in an area that has had otters for as long as I remember. I saw them just as regularly twenty plus years ago as I do now. The fishing on the local river has remained fairly constant, notwithstanding the usual cyclical species population changes. I'm sure I may feel differently if I were fishing somewhere that previously had almost zero predation, bigger fish and greater numbers.

I know that some stillwaters in the region have been hit quite hard. However, they are usually the well (over) stocked pools. Those with more natural stock levels, though undoubtedly predated, are not being unduly affected. My own syndicate stillwater is no more than a single field away from the river where I regularly see otters. However, I'm far, far more concerned by cormorant predation of the silver fish than I am by otter visits.

I'm also less than convinced that some anglers really know what they are looking at sometimes. I recall watching a mink hunt on the far bank a few years ago. I watched it quietly for quite some time. It disappeared when another angler appeared behind me asking animatedly "have you seen the dirty great otter on the far bank?". No matter what I said, he simply wouldn't accept that it was a mink. I've also watched dead fish wash up and be scavenged by crows, only to have a newly arrived angler see the corpse and proceed to tell me that it has been "ottered". Too many people are that little bit too quick to blame every last fish corpse on otters.

Bob Hornegold · Jul 22, 2015

tigger said:
Otters are indiginous Bob and they certainly won't reach large numbers as they're very territorial. Lets face it the amount of otters across the country is tiny.

I'm amazed at how people see a dead fish andinstantly blame otters, and it's gott'a be the biggest fish in the river as otters only seem to target the biggest.

I'm no tree hugger but lets be realistic, there are far more serious threats to fish stocks than a few otters scatterd across the country.

It's funny how many of these people promote the stocking of invasive species, some of which will eat more in a day than an otter will eat in a week or more....wels catfish for example. There seems to be far more of those invaders cropping up across the country. Just think how many are caught and the capture keep quiet about it.

Sorry tigger,

But they may not have affected you yet, but they have certainly affected many of us, be it territorial or not.

I have seen them wipe out complete fisheries and as far as I know Barbel are indigenous on east flowing rivers.

Otters were culled to protect fisheries before they became protected and in the end they will be reduced in numbers because the fish stocks will be reduced.

It's complete and Utter Tosh to say they don't effect fisheries, ask any one who has fished the Upper Ouse, The Ivel or a bigger river like the Warks Avon.

And they don't stop at Barbel, they move onto Chub and smaller species like Roach and Dace.

Bob

chub_on_the_block · Jul 22, 2015

I would add the Wensum to Bob's list of small rivers where barbel have apparently been decimated by otters. I say "apparently" because there is one other aspect on some of these rivers - very poor recruitment. All those 15-20Ib Barbs in the Wensum must have been getting on a bit and i dont recall seeing many smaller barbel to replace them. Unlike the Wye, Trent etc where there seems a healthy age mix. Back in the day the Dorset Stour and Avon also had a good mix - i know because i only seemed to catch the smaller ones up to about 4Ib!.

itsfishingnotcatching · Jul 22, 2015

Bob Hornegold said:
Otters were culled to protect fisheries before they became protected

Pretty certain this was to protect stocks of game fish or as a form of sport, from the comments of those who fish areas which have always had an otter population they appear to have made a negligible difference. From my albeit limited experience, the Severn, Anker, Teme and Salwarpe appear to have thriving fish stocks and catch reports from the Severn have been pretty good. Otters were around well before pollution, water extraction, theft of fish and predation from seabirds that have moved inland, is it not time to leave them be, if only to protect anglers from the wrath of the rest of the population

Bob Hornegold · Jul 22, 2015

There were plenty of small Barbel in the Ivel, along with their bigger brethren, in small rivers with indigenous stocks they are a sitting target for Otters.

And there are lots of small rivers where Otters have not yet reached to any extent, the Lea and the Roding come to mind, there must be others.

As the fish stocks diminish and the Otters move to different areas, it's all very well suggesting there is a natural balance to these things, but on the smaller rivers I fished there has been an almost total wipe out of fish stocks.

Some can live in cloud cuckoo land , but seeing it first hand can make you realise the size of the problem.

Bob

itsfishingnotcatching · Jul 22, 2015

And not actually seeing an otter problem asks the question just who is living in cloud cuckoo land?

Bob Hornegold said:
there are lots of small rivers where Otters have not yet reached to any extent, the Lea and the Roding come to mind

Bob Hornegold said:
on the smaller rivers I fished there has been an almost total wipe out of fish stocks.

So, have the otters reached them? If not it would appear the "wipe out" on these unnamed rivers has been caused by something else.

Bob Hornegold · Jul 22, 2015

itsfishingnotcatching said:
And not actually seeing an otter problem asks the question just who is living in cloud cuckoo land?

So, have the otters reached them? If not it would appear the "wipe out" on these unnamed rivers has been caused by something else.

What exactly are you talking about ?

Are you being deliberately obtuse, I have seen what they can do on the river Ivel and the Upper Ouse.

If the Otters reach river such as the Lea and Roding, I have no doubt the same thing will occur.

It cannot be any clearer than that.

Anglers should be up in arms at the destruction of wonderful fisheries and the fish stocks, not trying to put up a smoke screen and try to bring in other reasons why these Barbel have died.

Bob

itsfishingnotcatching · Jul 22, 2015

If you wish to quote me then please include your own contradictory statements that you chose to omit from your last post.

You could start by clarifying exactly which rivers:

the smaller rivers I fished there has been an almost total wipe out of fish stocks.

Your words Bob.

It seems that your views are not born out by everyone on here and while agreeing that the otter re-introduction could have been better managed, they are as indigenous as any fish species and more so than some.

tonybull · Jul 22, 2015

As far as I know Otters are on the Lea at Fishersgreen and there are Display boards on the walk way between the River and Lakes.

Its well documented, Bob with information on the Otter and its habitat etc

binka · Jul 22, 2015

robertroach said:
All I can think it could be is an otter chasing a fish, but how can it move so fast?
Anyone seen anything like it?

There are certain swims on my local river that I used to consider "banker" swims but which I won't fish anymore simply because they now seem practically devoid of fish.

On a trip earlier this season I returned to one and it was hopeless and on several occasions a line of bubbles shot past from something below the water line.

I've always been of the live and let live frame of mind with otters but I don't think we could sustain a healthy population without a huge impact on fisheries.

How about this for the one that got away, not from me but from the otter and despite putting up a perfectly healthy fight and going back strong it was a bit of a mess for a fish of around 7lbs.

Notice on the second image where the otter had its claws behind the fish's gill cover...

The reality of nature I guess, that fish was caught yards from the swim I was referring to above.

chub_on_the_block · Jul 22, 2015

I agree with Bob that Barbel have a major problem with otters in small rivers. Maybe as far as rivers like the Ivel are concerned Barbel were once able to survive long term in the Great Ouse nearby and from there to repopulate the Ivel from time to time (before the Ouse was canalised etc). In more recent centuries otter numbers were probably controlled by man anyway - until recently of course.

In other rivers like the Wensum I dont think they were ever present until stocked in the 1960s. Yes they have existed there from the 1960s-present, but that is just a moment in time compared to the last 5-10,000 years since the last ice age during which they have survived in other East flowing rivers. I suspect that it was always thus that otters would periodically wipe out large fish like Barbel in such rivers. Perhaps only those small rivers that are connected to large ones with permanent Barbel stocks could have supported them? These days those connections have been compromised by weirs etc.

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