Depth limitations for feeding fish.

wes79 · Aug 15, 2015

Aside from winter as its a case of where thermo's are etc, how deep is to deep for feeding?
I want to be able to fish with confidence on a still water that is around 20 ft deep from the very edge, mainly for Perch, Pike, Bream and Silvers etc (I know Carp come to the surface) not really much contained in any of the books I have on this area which I feel has more importance than I gave to it last visit and I feel accounted for my lack of success.

Thermoclimes, "breaking" algae, oxygen levels in the water, water clarity/light penetration factor (influences on photosynthesis of plant life), plant life offers protection or cover for an ambush of different species like Perch and Pike, as well as a food source for the others must be depth specific to a degree?

Is there a "sweet zone" or are there parameters of depth and limitations to depths of which different species will feed at?

Having just done rivers for the last two/three years or so after getting back into fishing, some of the few invites I've had to still waters have been embarrassing as I simply don't have a clue how to fish them properly (I'm turning into a bit of a one trick pony even if I do say so myself).

tonybull · Aug 15, 2015

Fish a slider and vary the depths until you find the fish, if there's any there.

You could use a a bait dropper to get some feed on the bottom and just loose feed over the top.

I fish a lake with depths up to about 20 ft and fish slider at distance as well and its all about trial and error and you have to work out on the day where the fish want to take a bait.

If you shot the slider in a way with droppers/tell tale shot then your know once you put a bait on the hook when the fish might want to feed with hold up bites etc

Or fish a bomb with a very long tail and slow sinking bait.

john step · Aug 15, 2015

I used to fish a pit at Wraysbury with close in depths like that.
The tench were actually caught effectively well off the bottom on slow sinking flake during the day. I think they patrolled about until they happened upon the bait.
Is there any sort of shelf even under the bank or close in where food would
congregate and fish patrol.

Pike and perch will be no problem in deep water as they will come up and investigate a live or dead bait.

As an aside, I was recently speaking to some carpers who go to the big lakes in South of France where they catch on one lake in the SHALLOWS AT 40 FEET DEEP!!
I found that staggering, but they obviously knew what they were talking about.

The bad one · Aug 15, 2015

I'm not sure I fully understand what you are asking or saying here?
If your suggesting you get a thermocline in winter, you don't it's a warm weather event, so summer only.
If your asking where to fish when such events are happening (stratification) then it's the windward bank as the wind tilts the stratification to it deepest on that bank and the most oxygenated water is found there from the top and middle layers, along with poor swimming hatching insects. The bigger the wind and bigger the water the more it tilts.
Conversely, the lea bank gets the upwelling of low oxygenated water which fish rarely like going in due to difficulty breathing.
Be mindful that true stratification, 3 layers, only happens on water that's 18+ feet deep. Less than that, and more than not, you'll only get two layers or none at all.

tigger · Aug 15, 2015

In a water with a sheer drop off like that Wes it's good if you can find a shelf to fish on or just over even if it's sticking out of the bank at any depth.
If there are no such features then I like to strart on the bottom in deep water using a slider set up and then gradually move my float down the line (bringing my baited hook up from the bottom) until I start to catch. I've found that I have a lot of bites between one and 6ft off the bottom. Also if the banks are sheer drop off's I often fish within 6ft of the bank or virtually touching the bank as many fish will patrol round the edges where the majority of insects etc fall in the water, plus it's often the only feature in a water like that. If it doesn't work i'd try other methods...cattying/spraying out maggots and casters etc and fishing over them with the same, use a self cocker or a float with the shot directly under it, you can always add a small shot to sink your bait at the desired rate. There's loads of different methods you can try to induce bites. Trial and error until you get your result.

Tee-Cee · Aug 16, 2015

Wes....Can I ask how much work you've done in checking the depths of your water? I can understand you having 20' deep areas within the lake and maybe this is the common depth over most of the water, but it hardly seem likely that the bottom would not shelve up SOMEWHERE.....?
No need for me to tell you that these area are well worth searching out..

Anyway, assuming your water is like a swimming pool - flat bottom more or less - vertical sides and a constant 20' deep, I would, and have over long periods of time, use the slider float method with considerable differences in shotting pattern to find fish. From fast dropping arrangements to very slow ' on the drop ' and all the variations of final depth I have spent many hours searching for the ' best' depth to locate fish. My own experiences tell me that fishing on, or just above the bottom does not necessarily yield any number of fish or any bigger and that most fall to baits fished well above. In fact, I would say most of my fish, and I'm talking more about roach, crucians and perch are caught within 8/10' of the surface !
Personally, if I find deep water close in I, like tigger would not bother fishing anymore than 6' or so from the bank. Fishing the slider in the way described above is very hard work as you probably know and why cast longer distances anyway. It means moving about carefully and quietly, but this should be the norm...
For me, a float with a long slim antenna carrying a good amount of shot ( always better for slider fishing IMHO ) and fished on the drop has ALWAYS produced the best fish, be it with flake, maggots or, my favourite small cubes of crust. Nothing better than watching the antenna slowly dropping through the water.....
Personally I like my floats, generally speaking to be slightly loaded ( I suggest it gives better control once the float hits the water and stops ' travel ', so for that reason I make my own to give me what I want........................Many carry huge amounts of shot but still sail away even from a taking 6" roach!

Trial and error? Absolutely !! It's a great way to fish but many cannot handle the inevitable fuffing around with slider knots, shot changes and the like. However, get it right and some very good fish are on the cards...

Hope this hasn't been too much ' teaching grandmother ' etc ......................................

Regards the Thermocline; It may well be old hat now and superseded by more up to date thought and information, but I still read **** Walkers half dozen pages on the subject in his book ' Still water Angling '. It probably stands the test of time from an anglers point of view and, in many ways, still valid today as it was when written...

The same book also gives very good info on perch fishing at depths of 40' and more which you may find of interest....

Good luck, though !!

ps 'Feed ' is also interesting; The sprayed maggot method is very good, but tends to get the fish darting about like mad things if too wildly spread so I end to use small amounts of hemp or even fine brown crumb fairly dry in very small balls to fall through the water as slowly as possible. The worlds your oyster really, so trial and error, trial and error and then more of the same !

wes79 · Aug 16, 2015

The bad one said:
I'm not sure I fully understand what you are asking or saying here?
If your suggesting you get a thermocline in winter, you don't it's a warm weather event, so summer only.
If your asking where to fish when such events are happening (stratification) then it's the windward bank as the wind tilts the stratification to it deepest on that bank and the most oxygenated water is found there from the top and middle layers, along with poor swimming hatching insects. The bigger the wind and bigger the water the more it tilts.
Conversely, the lea bank gets the upwelling of low oxygenated water which fish rarely like going in due to difficulty breathing.
Be mindful that true stratification, 3 layers, only happens on water that's 18+ feet deep. Less than that, and more than not, you'll only get two layers or none at all.

Thanks Tbo, having never fished depths I'm trying to find my feet, some past knowledge hasn't obviously stood up to scrutiny there, so yes your probably right, the information I was given ( a tip if you like) was regarding the fish having learn't to hold their breath to visit deeper water as the oxygenation on this water is said to be quite poor (why don't I listen?), this was the main reason I (wrongly) assumed would account for the poorer oxygen mid to lower water (warmer water releases its oxygen quicker than the cooler above). We were on the windward bank (more like a jetty in this case) and that was where a good head of Carp were seen, makes sense now, cheers.

tigger said:
In a water with a sheer drop off like that Wes it's good if you can find a shelf to fish on or just over even if it's sticking out of the bank at any depth.
If there are no such features then I like to strart on the bottom in deep water using a slider set up and then gradually move my float down the line (bringing my baited hook up from the bottom) until I start to catch. I've found that I have a lot of bites between one and 6ft off the bottom. Also if the banks are sheer drop off's I often fish within 6ft of the bank or virtually touching the bank as many fish will patrol round the edges where the majority of insects etc fall in the water, plus it's often the only feature in a water like that. If it doesn't work i'd try other methods...cattying/spraying out maggots and casters etc and fishing over them with the same, use a self cocker or a float with the shot directly under it, you can always add a small shot to sink your bait at the desired rate. There's loads of different methods you can try to induce bites. Trial and error until you get your result.

Its literally like a giant swimming pool, will take on board finding a shelf and fishing 6ft off the bottom, has to be worth a try, will be going back soon to give it a better go and hopefully find those Perch (armed with floats and shot).......I'm laughing at myself buying the drop shotting stuff now LOL what a mug fishing at 20ft depths..........jiggin "N" a blankn'

mg:.

Tee-Cee said:
Wes....Can I ask how much work you've done in checking the depths of your water? I can understand you having 20' deep areas within the lake and maybe this is the common depth over most of the water, but it hardly seem likely that the bottom would not shelve up SOMEWHERE.....?
No need for me to tell you that these area are well worth searching out..

Anyway, assuming your water is like a swimming pool - flat bottom more or less - vertical sides and a constant 20' deep, I would, and have over long periods of time, use the slider float method with considerable differences in shotting pattern to find fish. From fast dropping arrangements to very slow ' on the drop ' and all the variations of final depth I have spent many hours searching for the ' best' depth to locate fish. My own experiences tell me that fishing on, or just above the bottom does not necessarily yield any number of fish or any bigger and that most fall to baits fished well above. In fact, I would say most of my fish, and I'm talking more about roach, crucians and perch are caught within 8/10' of the surface !
Personally, if I find deep water close in I, like tigger would not bother fishing anymore than 6' or so from the bank. Fishing the slider in the way described above is very hard work as you probably know and why cast longer distances anyway. It means moving about carefully and quietly, but this should be the norm...
For me, a float with a long slim antenna carrying a good amount of shot ( always better for slider fishing IMHO ) and fished on the drop has ALWAYS produced the best fish, be it with flake, maggots or, my favourite small cubes of crust. Nothing better than watching the antenna slowly dropping through the water.....
Personally I like my floats, generally speaking to be slightly loaded ( I suggest it gives better control once the float hits the water and stops ' travel ', so for that reason I make my own to give me what I want........................Many carry huge amounts of shot but still sail away even from a taking 6" roach!

Trial and error? Absolutely !! It's a great way to fish but many cannot handle the inevitable fuffing around with slider knots, shot changes and the like. However, get it right and some very good fish are on the cards...

Hope this hasn't been too much ' teaching grandmother ' etc ......................................

Regards the Thermocline; It may well be old hat now and superseded by more up to date thought and information, but I still read **** Walkers half dozen pages on the subject in his book ' Still water Angling '. It probably stands the test of time from an anglers point of view and, in many ways, still valid today as it was when written...

The same book also gives very good info on perch fishing at depths of 40' and more which you may find of interest....

Good luck, though !!

ps 'Feed ' is also interesting; The sprayed maggot method is very good, but tends to get the fish darting about like mad things if too wildly spread so I end to use small amounts of hemp or even fine brown crumb fairly dry in very small balls to fall through the water as slowly as possible. The worlds your oyster really, so trial and error, trial and error and then more of the same !

Cheers Tee-Cee, plenty of meat in that post to get through there, I spent about 30 minutes plummeting but this was around the edges or like 3 or 4 feet out all came to the same (roughly 18ft) a little further out (10-15ft) got me a depth of about 20ft deep and I wondered what the bottom layer was like as it was ever so slightly deeper now and again, no snags though which is always a good thing (unless river Chub fishing) "teaching grandmother" nah

grateful you took the time to give a detailed reply mate, gives me more to reference, I know nothing about float fishing or still waters, to be fair it was my dad or my brother that "let me set your rod up for you" to fish the Canal back in the day, as I couldn't even tie a proper knot, with three impressive local rivers to choose from where I live now I made it my goal to learn how to fish them, the still waters rarely got a look in, but this I thought was coming at the cost of learning how to target all freshwater species properly, like say in a allrounder approach, at least be able to (excuse the pun) give it my best shot, still love me river fishing, gets addictive though, even sneaking off for 40 minutes to have a quickie with the river... (caught a Barb and a Chub last night and my reel fell to bits in my bag after so no fishing for a bit lol).

---------- Post added at 05:26 ---------- Previous post was at 05:11 ----------

john step said:
Pike and perch will be no problem in deep water as they will come up and investigate a live or dead bait.

That is good to hear,cheers john, I wasn't sure about the Pike as that is another species this water has, apparently good sizes.

law · Aug 16, 2015

I've caught carp in 35ft of water on the bottom. Used to pick up the odd bream too, so don't see why other species won't feed that deep.

flightliner · Aug 16, 2015

Dam Flask is about 45 metres deep--- that must be to deep 'cos the PASC boys never have any success.!

tonybull · Aug 16, 2015

I use Cralusso Zero Slider Floats, they work well, the float locks in position on the way out, it stays with the bulk of the shot, which is what you want and seldom get tangles.

I use an Olivette for my bulk, 12Gram float, use a 10G Olivette locked with 1 small shot above and the rest below, then you use the below ones for for tell tale shotting ect

I set the Olivette about 4ft from hook and then work out my tell tale as I go along.

But I only fish this if its 14/15ft upwards and out of pole range, otherwise I fish the pole and today had some nice Roach & Skimmers in about 13ft of water at 13m on the pole, most bites were coming on the drop or lift and drop.

wes79 · Aug 16, 2015

law said:
I've caught carp in 35ft of water on the bottom. Used to pick up the odd bream too, so don't see why other species won't feed that deep.

what time of year was that Law? Was that in the UK?

Is ok to assume Catfish would dwell right on the bottom if they were in such waters?

---------- Post added at 13:37 ---------- Previous post was at 13:28 ----------

tonybull said:
I use Cralusso Zero Slider Floats, they work well, the float locks in position on the way out, it stays with the bulk of the shot, which is what you want and seldom get tangles.

I use an Olivette for my bulk, 12Gram float, use a 10G Olivette locked with 1 small shot above and the rest below, then you use the below ones for for tell tale shotting ect

I set the Olivette about 4ft from hook and then work out my tell tale as I go along.

But I only fish this if its 14/15ft upwards and out of pole range, otherwise I fish the pole and today had some nice Roach & Skimmers in about 13ft of water at 13m on the pole, most bites were coming on the drop or lift and drop.

I have been asked if I wanted one (this is a Polaris) from a mate who was given the whole range as a courtesy from a certain online ordering giant

when things went a bit pear shaped, might just be the ticket, also not sure which one he's going to let me have yet so still probably best to learn it from scratch anyway as this article points out why but as long as I can connect with fish that would be super.
Would I be right in saying this is how you tackle it?

Sliding Float fishing master this and the worlds your oyster

Depth limitations for feeding fish.

wes79

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tonybull

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john step

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The bad one

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tigger

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Tee-Cee

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wes79

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law

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flightliner

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tonybull

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wes79

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