Carp: A Duffer's Analysis

Carp: A Duffer's Analysis - Martin Gay
http://www.fishingmagic.com/feature-articles/18113-carp-a-duffer-s-analysis.html

Re: Carp: A Duffer's Analysis

"The capture of a really big fish is a pleasant surprise; were it a forgone conclusion, angling would be robbed of much of its fascination. It is the unknown in our sport which is so tempting".

I couldn't agree more...

Amen to that.

Re: Carp: A Duffer's Analysis

‘Churchill’s impact upon their lives is a lot less profound than Walkers – if they only knew it!’

Truly unbelievable! If he seriously thought that the man who articulated the development of specialist angling had a more profound effect on our lives than the defeat of Nazi Germany, his state of mind has to be brought into question. Which would by the way, explain his bizarre behaviour over the big commons.

Elevating any one style of angling over another is arrogant and divisive.

I fish in all sorts of ways’, yes I fish for carp, sometimes with a couple of ledgers out, sometimes not. I also fly fish, trot, roll meat etc when the mood takes me. If I’m enjoying myself, I’m successful, but I don’t consider those who chose to fish differently to be wrong or inferior (providing they fish within the rules of the sport and fish welfare is good) and I don’t really understand those who do.

I’m also not sure where current editorial policy is going at the moment.

Stu

Re: Carp: A Duffer's Analysis

A rather cynical piece of writing that to be honest is not the sort of thing I like to see, there are as we all know o many different branches of our sport and many different methods of fishing within those branches, imo that's why it attracts people, if an angler enjoys the way they fish and it does no harm to the fish or the sport of other anglers why criticise?

If an angler has come into the sport at the carp fishing end of things using modern tackle and rigs (not all can afford the hand built cane rods MG used) does that really matter? yes they have imo missed out on other pleasurable ways of fishing but that's their choice and I have seen carp anglers go back and learn other methods, sort of in reverse to the way some of us learned.

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Apart from his ill advised comparison between Churchill and Walker, I agree with everything he says in this article.

I went to a local lake yesterday for a couple of hours and freelined a piece of luncheon meat in a weedy corner where I hooked and lost a decent size carp and missed a few takes. The excitement, watching the fish move and grub around was intense, and as a very occasional carp fisherman, I really enjoyed it, even though nothing was actually caught.

All the others on the lake had set up wheel barrow loads of gear, huge tents (bivvies?), camping beds and hurled 3 ounce bolt rigs somewhere in the middle of the lake. It's like there's a formula for carp fishing which must be followed at all costs (and especially at high cost). I think they didn't even bother to watch their gear, just listen for the alarm, pick up the rod and winch the fish in.

Each to his own, but its definitely not for me.

Re: Carp: A Duffer's Analysis

Binka, RobertRoach...glad you enjoyed reading that; it was clearly written from the heart, wasn't it? And yes...a tad cynical in places. The Churchill / Walker thing is contentious but of little importance to the spirit of the piece, I think. For me it's a wonderful article to which I return from time to time: an article with a clear message.

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A lot of people don't know how to fish different styles and methods.

They are bought into the sport with limited help or advice and automatically sit on a comfy chair and chuck out a lead or feeder and put it on a buzzer and wait.

This is all well and good for the people hunting those hard to catch fish on natural venues, but no need on well stocked club or commercial waters.

I try and avoid these people and venues unless I'm on a match and have little choice if some of the lake is kept aside for pleasure anglers.

Re: Carp: A Duffer's Analysis

One of the problems with modern carp fishing, is the fact that the branch of the sport has been reduced to a numbers chase.... Bigger, more, further out, closer in, bigger, bigger, get that record now.....

When I see a picture of a carper holding a lump, there's not a bloody smile in sight... so serious has the pursuit of bigguns become, that a certain enjoyment of the sport has vanished.... which to me is the whole point of fishing

Several years ago I got hold of a cane rod and mated it up with an old centre pin reel.... you know what...? I had more fun catching smaller wildies and the odd double, than any of the 20's and near 30's that I have snaffled in the past.

There's a lot to be said for taking a step back from the world of numbers, and another unfortunate side effect of the advent of "Supercarp" hitting a 100lbs, is the fact that the majority of the anglers that chase such giants would not have a clue how to trot a float, fish a feeder, cast a fly, shot a waggler correctly...

nowadays a prospective carper walks into a shop buys the triple rod/reel setup, with barrow, bivvy, bedchair, & boilies, chuck a bait to a horizon and call themselves anglers... dunno about you, but to me there's summat missing.... Like knowledge, experience, learning your craft.... doing your time.. call me old school (in fact I'm proud of the label) but to me those people are missing out on a whole raft of the angling world that would enhance their limited stock of skills...

I'll get off me soap-box now:w:wh

Re: Carp: A Duffer's Analysis

arthur2sheds said:

but to me those people are missing out on a whole raft of the angling world that would enhance their limited stock

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I agree completely with that, my problem is that it is their choice to do what they do, there is no right or wrong way to fish, each to their own.

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Cliff Hatton 2 said:

The Churchill / Walker thing is contentious but of little importance to the spirit of the piece,

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It does go to show his sense of perspective at the time though, totally skewed. It's not contentious, it's completely bonkers.

For me it's a mean spirited and arrogant 'my way of fishing is better than yours' piece.

You keep returning to it.

Stu

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Other than to reinforce what appears to be an ongoing agenda, there's no need to single out (big) carp fishing. There are "chuck it and chance it sheep" in all forms of angling. That's always been the case and probably always will be. I see it on commercials, rivers, big carp venues and more natural mixed stillwaters. Some folks just aren't that interested, even if others try to lead them by the nose in an attempt to broaden their outlook and improve their results. Some just don't have the aptitude or inclination. Angling is an escape for them, catching fish is often incidental. As long as they are enjoying themselves, and are doing no harm, good luck to them.

I know folks that pay good money to fish syndicates. Some rarely catch a thing, one or two hardly even wet a line, just camp by water for a day or two. I don't really get it myself, but they seem to enjoy themselves. It also strikes me that many on here, including some of those that repeatedly knock carp fishing, espouse the "it's just being there" mantra. Why should this not apply in spades to the long stay sedentary carpers or the other chuck it and chancers that rarely catch a thing? It strikes me that they are conforming to that ethos rather well.

The simmering intolerance of quite a few on this forum has always been there. It's been a bastion of a certain age group, with a certain mindset, for quite some time. However, the intolerance to those that don't conform, especially carpers, seems to be becoming a little more prevalent and a little less subtle recently. I understand that some might not agree, but it's not a good thing, certainly not for the ongoing vitality of the forum.

Re: Carp: A Duffer's Analysis

Sam I don't really think there's any intolerance towards people fishing for carp in whatever way they wish to. I personally couldn't care less if that's what they want to do.

The thing that is really annoying is that it is so prevalent and there's so much commercialisation associated with it that it is dominating our fishing landscape to the detriment of other forms of fishing.

I'll give you an example: a club water gravel pit I used to fish about 20 years ago was a wonderful place to fish for tench and roach (as well as pike,bream and carp). A couple of years ago I returned to find nearly all the swims occupied by long stay carp anglers and no reports of any tench being caught. Last year it changed into a syndicate carp fishery, about £600 per season, I believe.

There are now very places where you can find decent tench fishing in my area.
Please don't try to turn this into some sort of us against them argument.

Re: Carp: A Duffer's Analysis

robertroach said:

Sam I don't really think there's any intolerance towards people fishing for carp in whatever way they wish to. I personally couldn't care less if that's what they want to do.

The thing that is really annoying is that it is so prevalent and there's so much commercialisation associated with it that it is dominating our fishing landscape to the detriment of other forms of fishing.

I'll give you an example: a club water gravel pit I used to fish about 20 years ago was a wonderful place to fish for tench and roach (as well as pike,bream and carp). A couple of years ago I returned to find nearly all the swims occupied by long stay carp anglers and no reports of any tench being caught. Last year it changed into a syndicate carp fishery, about £600 per season, I believe.

There are now very places where you can find decent tench fishing in my area.
Please don't try to turn this into some sort of us against them argument.

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Robert,
if you genuinely believe that there isn't a general undercurrent of what borders on hatred of modern carping on this forum, you are only kidding yourself. It's been apparent for an awful long time, it's been even more apparent recently. The only way it can turn it into a them against us argument is by someone standing up to it. If it doesn't exist, there is no argument. However, that's patently not the case. There's always been a barrel load of ridiculous stereotypes bandied about with regards to modern carping on here. Naturally, stereotypes exist for good reason, but the broad brush labelling that occurs is simply not on.

I am not an out and out carper and my syndicate is not an out and out carp water, though a visitor may be forgiven for thinking otherwise at times. Ultimately, carpers fund our aims, without their money we'd not be able to pay the rent (and if we didn't pay, the fishery wouldn't exist) or buy in new stock (the latest being tench). I have every sympathy with those that feel that their fishing has been effected detrimentally by modern carping. I sometimes feel that way too. However, I'm a pragmatist and know that money talks, whether we like it or not. It was ever thus. There's still no rational excuse to label all carpers or all modern carping as one thing or another. Those that do simply show themselves up as small minded.

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Oh dear, different forum, same old argument, I reckon it is a very true article, I am nearly 60 and definitely old school. The problem with this is people these days demand fast sport, guaranteed catches, bigger fish and more of them. As touched on above, some venues have been transformed from great mixed fisheries into carp puddles inhabited by Argos anglers, I don't hate carp anglers, I am one, but the exclusion of other species, overpriced baits and syndicate tickets, makes me wonder whats next. It has brought into this sport, guys who probably would never have picked up a fishing rod, in my view this is not a good thing. Campers, drink, drugs, noise, and sleep it off until the bite alarm wakes you up, then there is the commercial anglers who want a bite every five minutes from lakes where you could walk on the fish. Martin Gay was spot on and its sad to see our sport going down this route. Let me broach a question, suppose catfish became the favoured species, would carp anglers accept there favourites being netted out and disposed of without protest.

Re: Carp: A Duffer's Analysis

wanderer said:

It has brought into this sport, guys who probably would never have picked up a fishing rod, in my view this is not a good thing

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I would argue that any branch of angling that brings more into the sport is a good thing, there seems to be a kind of snobbery amongst some anglers that think everyone needs to have served their time building up to whatever they do now, that they are missing some things that they may enjoy is not in dispute, its their choice the same as it is for others to fish with wooden rods and dress in daft clothing.

Carp angling has over the years been the biggest innovator when it comes to tackle improvements, it has been driven by Carp anglers and if some choose to take that branch of the sport up to the exclusion of other branches so be it, its their choice.

The comment about Argos Anglers was imo uncalled for, if an angler chooses to buy tackle from Argos does that make him less of an angler? it smacks of snobbery, i have never spent loads on my tackle, it hasn't stopped me from catching my share of big uns.

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I don't hate modern carping.... I just think that a lot of em have lost their way somewhere along the line.... I still have my carp gear... if fact it's in the back of the car at the mo and I have a syndi ticket (till the end of the season anyway)

I think that a lot of Carpers have lost out on the overall knowledge by diving head first into the carping world and completely sidestepping a lot of knowledge that would probably put more fish on the bank for them... and with that focus on the numbers game goes a lot of the enjoyment of their sport....

I got the message years ago when carping started to become a numbers game for me... it started to affect my work and home life, (made me a sodding moody bu&&er) so I took a step back.... some folk in the carp world need to do this otherwise it'll consume them

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My point is these guys can go to Argos buy a hundred quids worth of tackle head down to Brasenose or somewhere similar and haul out a 30 pounder with zilch fish handling knowledge and just boast about their P.B. from a water stuffed with huge fish. This is not fishing, it is catching, and all the watercraft and skills that are learned over the years, are not present, dangerous stuff, our sport needs to get away from this attitude, snobbery no, reality, yes.

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I don't know how to put this but maybe just maybe they are enjoying what they do and that is surely what angling is about isn't it?

I think that wooden rods are horrible, expensive and prone to warping without the proper care, does it bother me that others like to fish with them? not one bit, its their choice the same as its others choice to fish how they want.

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true angling is about satisfying the hunting instinct latent in all of us, these anglers enjoy themselves at the expense of the fish that just become a commodity, fish in a barrel, is that the way forward, irristible baits, overloaded waters, I think the eastate lakes and the rivers are the place to be, I saw a guy on a day ticket water turn up in a camper van that would have graced the formula one circuit, set up his rods, disappear inside to watch match of the day, yuk, is this the future.

Re: Carp: A Duffer's Analysis

wanderer said:

true angling is about satisfying the hunting instinct latent in all of us, these anglers enjoy themselves at the expense of the fish that just become a commodity, fish in a barrel, is that the way forward, irristible baits, overloaded waters, I think the eastate lakes and the rivers are the place to be, I saw a guy on a day ticket water turn up in a camper van that would have graced the formula one circuit, set up his rods, disappear inside to watch match of the day, yuk, is this the future.

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You just carry on believing that Carp anglers are the devil incarnate and that bivvies, buzzers, and anything else that may make Carp fishing for a section of anglers more enjoyable. Me I going to watch a programme about dinosaurs and how they died out because they wouldn't change. bye bye.