Unspooling and respooling line

DorsetTangler · Sep 22, 2015

Hi

Has anyone got a method for putting on new line accurately (on a fixed spool reel)?

For example say you have a spool with 8lb line on. You cant remember if you put the line on from a 100m spool or a bulk spool.
You now have a new spool of 100m of 4lb line and you want to take off enough 8 so that when you put on all the 4lb it sits perfectly 1/8th of an inch off the spool lip. So you despool enough old line, cut the line and tie on your new 4lb and wind it all on.

How? Any tricks?

Thanks all

rubio · Sep 22, 2015

Good question. I usually get it right enough by underguessing but would like to know a more exact method. Diameters and arithmetic?

greenie62 · Sep 22, 2015

dorsettangler said:
Has anyone got a method for putting on new line accurately (on a fixed spool reel)?...

Needs a spare spool for the reel!

Wind the 100m of 4lb onto the spare reel spool, attach the backing line, then wind this onto the required level, Cut. You now have 100m of 4lb plus X m of backing on the outside.
Wind the remaining backing line onto the empty 4lb retail spool and re-label it for use as 'spare' heavy hook length material and set aside.
Attach the backing reel from the spare reel spool to the target spool - wind it onto the target until you end-up with the reel filled as required - with the X m of backing on the inside and 100m of 4lb outside.

The main problem with this method is that you can end up with very twisted line if you don't watch out for the way the line is reeled on/off during the transfers.

Years ago I tried to do the calculations using mathematical modelling but it never worked perfectly - the above steps are the only way I've found of a guaranteed 'fit'.

Tight Lines!

bracket · Sep 22, 2015

Dorset angler. This is straight forward if you have a spare spool, load your required main line on to the spare spool that attach the backing line and load to the required depth below spool lip. When you get to this point, transfer all the line back to the original spool and there you have it . That's the easy way. If you do not have a spare spool for the reel in question you can still do it, but it becomes laborious. Here is the tedious way. Load up your spool, as already mentioned, transfer the line to any other reel spool, a centre pin is ideal and will minimise line twist, You will finish with the line in the reverse order, the main line being the last on. Repeat the transfer again to another reel spool (this is where two centre pins are an advantage) and you will have the backing line on top, being the last length of line wound on. You are now in a position to wind the line back on to your original spool with the backing line going on first and the main line finishing below the lip, in the position you chose to begin with. Bit of a pain, but it does work. Hope this helps. Pete

DorsetTangler · Sep 22, 2015

That sounds a good method but possibly does mean you'd need all your spools to take the same amount/be of equal depth and you'd need one spare empty at all times.
Some reels have a match spool and a deeper one dont they.

Good tip though nevertheless. :thumbs:

While we're here, what is the ideal level of line on a "full" spool? If say you got a straight edge and placed it against edge of the spool from top to bottom would the line touch the straight edge or be just below? (This is for waggler/float fishing. Feeder and legering not so critical I guess because of heavier weight to drag the line off)

kenpm · Sep 22, 2015

Other that trial and error or the identical spare spool method outlined above the only way is to pull off about 65 yards of the heavier line and replace it with the lighter line unless you know how many turns of the reel handle that the quantity of line/depth of spool represents by counting turns when you load the reel.

binka · Sep 22, 2015

Some good tips already mentioned, it's not really a dilemma I've thought much about.

Could this also be done by simple equation?

Eg. If the 8b line the op wants to take off has a diameter of, say, 0.08 and the 4lb has a diameter of 0.04 then simply strip off fifty metres of the 8lb line to replace with a hundred metres of 4lb line?

greenie62 · Sep 23, 2015

binka said:
...Could this also be done by simple equation?

Eg. If the 8b line the op wants to take off has a diameter of, say, 0.08 and the 4lb has a diameter of 0.04 then simply strip off fifty metres of the 8lb line to replace with a hundred metres of 4lb line?

No! - it doesn't work like that! That's how I made the same mistake referred to in my previous post.
(BTW - You've got the right answer but you've fiddled the working!

mg

The space taken-up by the line on the spool is proportional to the Cross-sectional area of the line.

Imagine taking a cross-section of the reel spool with the line layers viewed as a series of diameters filling-up the available spool volume viewed as an area, such that the Total cross-sectional area is limited to the sum of the cross-sectional areas of the line diameters.

The illustration shows how - by doubling the diameter of the line - the number of wraps is greatly reduced.

The following table shows examples based on the published diameters of Drennan Supplex, taking 4lb line as a 'standard' and showing the ratio of areas of the other line sizes.

lb BS Diam mm XSn Area (sq mm) 4lb Area Ratio
3.0 0.14 0.0154 77%
4.0 0.16 0.0201 100%
5.0 0.18 0.0254 127%
6.0 0.20 0.0314 156%
8.0 0.23 0.0415 207%
10.0 0.26 0.0531 264%
12.0 0.28 0.0616 306%

The best guide would be to use the BS as a comparison factor in determining how much packing space the lines use-up in filling the spool.
So - although your figure of 50m of 8lb is about right - the figures used weren't - 'cause the diameters you quoted weren't right!

'Spose we shouldn't be too surprised that the amount of space taken-up by line on spool is proportional to Breaking Strain - since this is also proportional to cross-sectional area of the material!

pointngo · Sep 23, 2015

I used maths for calculating how much of a certain diameter braid I could load, and is no doubt the same as Greenies, the basis of which is...

cross sectional area X length = volume

I found the same outcome.. it can be fairly accurate but there's no way to calculate the empty spaces between the wraps.

This assumes that given diameters are accurate and regular along the whole line. It's impossible to calculate very accurately as it depends on the diameter, which affects the size of gaps, as does how tight you wind it on.

Just dug out my example off another forum which was to find out how much 0.43mm braid could fit, with only reel capacity data for 0.35mm line.

to work out area of 0.35mm braid..

area = pi x 0.35² / 4

= 3.142 x 0.35 x 0.35 / 4

= 0.096mm²

volume of reel is 200m (reel capacity data) x 1000 x 0.096 = 19,200mm³

then for 0.43mm braid,

3.142 x 0.43 x 0.43 / 4

= 0.145mm²

so, 19,200mm³ / 0.145mm²

= 132414mm

divide by 1000 = 132m

greenie62 · Sep 23, 2015

pointngo said:
,,,I found the same outcome.. it can be fairly accurate but there's no way to calculate the empty spaces between the wraps.

This assumes that given diameters are accurate and regular along the whole line. It's impossible to calculate very accurately as it depends on the diameter, which affects the size of gaps, as does how tight you wind it on,,,,

Cheers Marc,
Agreed - there are quite a few limitations on the method and assumptions that have to be made - it all goes out the window with flattened and twisted lines and especially bedding-in with fine braid! - but better than nowt, eh?
Tight Lines!

pointngo · Sep 23, 2015

I agree with you again Greenie.. it has obvious limitations before accounting for wrong diameter, flattened or twisted lines etc.... but better than nothing if you really want/need to calculate it.

I don't generally bother. :thumbs:

Tight lines to you as well mate.

binka · Sep 23, 2015

greenie62 said:
(BTW - You've got the right answer but you've fiddled the working! mg

Good explanation, thanks greenie!

Would I fiddle anything? :wh :wh :wh

nogoodboyo · Sep 23, 2015

I only own Drennan reels with 100m capacities . I can't envisage a situation where I'd need more than that. Certainly not if I was using 4lb line.

kenpm · Sep 24, 2015

The problem with any attempt to accurately calculate the capacity is that lines are rarely accurate in their stated diameter some far worse than others aggravated by soaking line in water before loading,a common practice but mostly the tension will vary even if you use a line spooler.

law · Sep 24, 2015

The only problem with the spare spool method is that it can leave the line real kinky.
It's how I did it for a few years but I got fed up to line twist and knots etc due to the kink.

I'm lucky enough to have a huge field out the back of my house, so I would load the line on, then some backing, walk the whole lot out, then walk down the line to the start of the backing and load up.
Although it takes far to long, so now I just buy a bulk spoool and fully fill the reel.

greenie62 · Sep 24, 2015

law said:
...I'm lucky enough to have a huge field out the back of my house, so I would load the line on, then some backing, walk the whole lot out, then walk down the line to the start of the backing and load up...

Aha! - if you haven't got a spare spool - just use the spare field out the back!

- I had one of them once - but lost it in the divorce!

mg: - I managed to keep the spare spool though!

pf0x · Sep 24, 2015

Great info greenie :thumbs:

I've bought Greys and Drennan 100m shallow spool reels in the expectation that all my spooling woes would be over but it hasn't happened. Obviously, 2lb is thinner than 4 and 6 lb line so you still need backing

mg:

Unless you don't mind under filled spools....... (nothing worse!)........

robtherake · Sep 24, 2015

law said:
The only problem with the spare spool method is that it can leave the line real kinky.
It's how I did it for a few years but I got fed up to line twist and knots etc due to the kink.

I'm lucky enough to have a huge field out the back of my house, so I would load the line on, then some backing, walk the whole lot out, then walk down the line to the start of the backing and load up.
Although it takes far to long, so now I just buy a bulk spoool and fully fill the reel.

This is how I've been doing it. The piece of grass that I use is just over 50m long, so I walk it around a couple of banksticks to get the full distance. Useful when you're loading a fixed length of braid over mono backing as there seems to be no easy way to work out how much backing it'll take. An Albright knot connects the two.

Unspooling and respooling line

DorsetTangler

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rubio

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bracket

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