''The pinnacle of success''

Derek Gibson · Oct 8, 2015

Almost every species has exceeded weights we couldn't have dreamed of sixty years ago. Tench, Barbel, Bream, Carp, Perch, Pike etc. But it seems to me that there is one constant, the ''Roach''. All other species have come forward in leaps and bounds, surpassing anything we could have thought possible back in the late fifties early sixties. But the humble Roach weighing ''two pounds'' is still the target for the majority, as it was when I was a mere nipper. A magic fish indeed.

Of course there were exceptions, anglers whose Roach catches left the majority of anglers in disbelief. The likes of Owen Wentworth, Bill Penny, Wilf Cutting and JHR Bazley. And yet still a two pound Roach is the ultimate ambition of thousands of anglers. Confirming my belief that A Two Pound Roach is indeed the pinnacle of success to the vast majority.

thecrow · Oct 8, 2015

That's a point I have never thought of Derek, "why Roach have not got bigger in line with other species" I haven't a clue why as Roach will eat most if not all baits that the growth of other species has been put down to.

As you say a 2lb fish is still the target but it seems to me they are getting rarer although I haven't fished for them for many years, maybe they are more susceptible to things within their environment that other fish are not so affected by.

Interesting question.

sam vimes · Oct 8, 2015

I wouldn't dispute a 2lb roach being a cracking fish that most anglers would be happy to catch. It may also be as big a roach as many could reasonably aspire to catching. However, I don't agree that a 2lb roach is the pinnacle of success for most anglers. I'll accept that this will be tempered by the relative rarity of 2lb plus fish, but there simply aren't that many people out there, deliberately targeting large roach, for it to be true.

I am lucky enough to have had a couple of roach over 2lb, both on the same day about twenty years back. I very much doubt I'll be lucky enough to see the like again. Whilst another 2lb+ roach will always be welcome, I'd actually welcome a 3lb+ perch, 2lb+ rudd, 7lb+ chub, 2lb+ grayling, 10lb+ barbel, 7lb+ tench, 2lb+ crucian, 10lb+ bream, or 30lb+ carp (all from a reasonably local water) more. Like the 2lb+ roach, some of that list I've already had, so it isn't just about crossing something off a personal list.

Peter Jacobs · Oct 8, 2015

On what I consider to be the right venue, then a 2 pound Roach is still a pinnacle of success.

To me the right water would have to be a river, and preferably the Hampshire Avon as that is where my love of big roach stems from.

I am pretty lucky to have had dozens of those plus a couple over 3 pounds as well, and yet they remain my personal pinnacle of success.

Another in a long line of interesting recent threads from Derek . . . thank you

barbelboi · Oct 8, 2015

I believe I'd place dace in a similar category as roach in a species that haven't 'come forward in leaps and bounds'. Throughout the years, despite a few predominately 'single species' periods, I have never neglected (or enjoyed fishing for) either of them......

wanderer · Oct 8, 2015

Its a good post Derek, the Chub record is one of the oldest standing, Roach, the Kennet and the Avon, a two pounder a cracking fish but nothing special, try the trout reservoirs, you may need verification about hybridisation, but fish over 5 pounds have been landed, seek and yee shall find.

terry m · Oct 8, 2015

It is an interesting point about the size not increasing over the years, I too had not considered that.

Two pound roach from a river, as Peter says, are superb creatures, but would not be my pinnacle.

A 10lb Tench or a 30lb pike would do it for me.

wanderer · Oct 8, 2015

terry m said:
It is an interesting point about the size not increasing over the years, I too had not considered that.

Two pound roach from a river, as Peter says, are superb creatures, but would not be my pinnacle.

A 10lb Tench or a 30lb pike would do it for me.

Done both, Terry, but a big roach is a bit special.

Derek Gibson · Oct 8, 2015

terry m said:
It is an interesting point about the size not increasing over the years, I too had not considered that.

Two pound roach from a river, as Peter says, are superb creatures, but would not be my pinnacle.

A 10lb Tench or a 30lb pike would do it for me.

I would willingly trade a thirty pound pike for one of PJ's three pound roach Terry.

peterjg · Oct 8, 2015

I totally agree with Derek Gibson - 2lb roach are swines to catch for us mere mortals. I've caught five 2lbers but I am still trying for another. Wanderer says that from the Kennet and Avon 2lb roach are nothing special - I fish the K&A a lot - Wanderer - where should I be fishing?

The biggest problem (apart from their scarcity) is the fact that virtually every other fish can eat their bait, it is therefore very difficult to single out the big ones.

I won't stop trying - someone's got to do it!

binka · Oct 8, 2015

Having caught a two pound plus roach very recently, which will remain embedded in my memory for all eternity, I still class a five pound plus perch as my pinnacle.

I'm probably unlikely to ever see a four but it won't be for the lack of trying.

Completely agree on the point about maximum roach weights not increasing, it stands to reason that they might given all the food that's piled into some waters but maybe there is some sort of natural threshold which they just can't grow beyond?

S-Kippy · Oct 8, 2015

I'm not so sure. It may be true on the rivers where for a number of reasons roach generally and big roach in particular have become scarcer....or at least harder to find and get at due to other species bullying them ? They are easy fish to unsettle.

On Stillwater's I think they are getting bigger but few people are targeting them. Fish to well over 3 pound turned up in a netting at OBH that nobody even suspected were there....bar one bloke who worked it out and was catching them. I've no doubt they were packing on weight feeding on the pellets going in for the carp but were way too cute to fall for standard commie pool carp tactics. The same is true of many commercial fisheries I'm sure....but few people specifically target the roach therein. Or if they do they are keeping it quiet. I would too !

And I'm not so precious as to dismiss a big roach from a stillwater. Yes...I'd much prefer to catch a big one from a river but if I ever get a 3lb roach it will bother me not one whit if it comes from a stillwater.

2lb roach is still the mark for me. That is still a very big roach and always will be in my book.

wanderer · Oct 8, 2015

peterjg said:
I totally agree with Derek Gibson - 2lb roach are swines to catch for us mere mortals. I've caught five 2lbers but I am still trying for another. Wanderer says that from the Kennet and Avon 2lb roach are nothing special - I fish the K&A a lot - Wanderer - where should I be fishing?

The biggest problem (apart from their scarcity) is the fact that virtually every other fish can eat their bait, it is therefore very difficult to single out the big ones.

I won't stop trying - someone's got to do it!

Hungerford, and that's all your getting, good hunting.

---------- Post added at 12:35 ---------- Previous post was at 12:27 ----------

binka said:
Having caught a two pound plus roach very recently, which will remain embedded in my memory for all eternity, I still class a five pound plus perch as my pinnacle.

I'm probably unlikely to ever see a four but it won't be for the lack of trying.

Completely agree on the point about maximum roach weights not increasing, it stands to reason that they might given all the food that's piled into some waters but maybe there is some sort of natural threshold which they just can't grow beyond?

Apparently some of the Essex day ticket carp waters, hold Perch well over 4 pound, you need a word from my old mate Newmarket, he knows where they live.

binka · Oct 8, 2015

wanderer said:
Apparently some of the Essex day ticket carp waters, hold Perch well over 4 pound, you need a word from my old mate Newmarket, he knows where they live.

Thanks wanderer, I've got a river on my doorstep that produced a five plus a few weeks ago and I've little doubt they go bigger with possibly or even likely a record swimming around in there somewhere.

Now that's the crux of it...

Somewhere?

I've got around 185 miles to go at

lookabaa · Oct 8, 2015

Maybe it's because they don't live as long as most other species coupled with genetic restraints. Somebody should keep one in captivity and see how big they can get it on the best possible food.

They probably get bullied off food on comm's from Carp. On rivers they probably get predated on from Pike and they seem to be very cautious compared to other fish. There's probably huge ones around but won't be fooled.

sam vimes · Oct 8, 2015

Many years ago I fished an old farm brick pit that had been set up as a small scale commercial. Stuffed, but not overly, with small carp. It also had a huge head of annoyingly small roach. I also seem to recall the odd tench and skimmer.

Fast forward fifteen to twenty years and I've fished it a couple of times this year. So far, I've been after the carp on heavy float gear and light carp gear. Though not exactly huge, they aren't pasties any more. However, there were an awful lot of unexplained, and exceedingly frustrating, knocks, taps and rattles that seemed unhittable. I managed to scale down and find the culprits for an hour or two on my last visit. In amongst a fair number of smaller specimens, I had two that appeared to be well in excess of a pound. I also saw one of the carpers land a roach that looked at least two pounds. I'm fully intending to get back there soon to fish it properly. Hopefully, the carp will be less active so I can fish appropriately.

S-Kippy · Oct 8, 2015

You lucky sod ! This is precisely what I was getting at and the sort of water id love to have a crack at. Roach quietly getting bigger without anybody really suspecting because nobodies fishing for them and those that catch them by accident aren't remotely inerested. !

Be interested to hear how this pans out.

peterjg · Oct 9, 2015

I fish mainly for big roach - that's a bit of a joke really? Considering that having moved two years ago and now usually fish the Kennet and Avon canal (including its flowing pounds) that by accident while 'roach fishing' I have accidentally caught chub, bleak, brown trout, rainbow trout, a sea trout, barbel, two small grayling, a 20lb carp, bream (yuk), ruffe, gudgeon, tench, perch, dace and minnows. Mainly use bread and rarely use maggots - so much for the specialist approach!

Bob Hornegold · Oct 9, 2015

Roach disease, lack of habitat, water quality and predators !!

As a young man the London Reservoir and local river held many 2lb+ Roach, the Rivers Bean, Rib and Lea all held lots of Big Roach.

Now you would be hard press to find a Roach half that size, but given protection Roach do grow to big sizes, look at Sway and Linch Lake !!

Okay, Perch suffered a similar disease, but have come back, but it's only a matter of time.

Any one who saw the tons of dead Perch on the King George will never forget how nature can nearly wipe out a species.

Bob

itsfishingnotcatching · Oct 9, 2015

sam vimes said:
Many years ago I fished an old farm brick pit that had been set up as a small scale commercial. Stuffed, but not overly, with small carp. It also had a huge head of annoyingly small roach. I also seem to recall the odd tench and skimmer.

Fast forward fifteen to twenty years and I've fished it a couple of times this year. So far, I've been after the carp on heavy float gear and light carp gear. Though not exactly huge, they aren't pasties any more. However, there were an awful lot of unexplained, and exceedingly frustrating, knocks, taps and rattles that seemed unhittable. I managed to scale down and find the culprits for an hour or two on my last visit. In amongst a fair number of smaller specimens, I had two that appeared to be well in excess of a pound. I also saw one of the carpers land a roach that looked at least two pounds. I'm fully intending to get back there soon to fish it properly. Hopefully, the carp will be less active so I can fish appropriately.

I can feel a "Fish-in" coming on Sam

''The pinnacle of success''

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