''Gain or Loss''

Derek Gibson · Nov 13, 2015

I was reminded of this only yesterday whilst talking with an old angler with over seventy years experience.

The bone of contention revolved around how angling has progressed. It jogged my memory to a statement made by Bernard Venables when asked about Richard Walkers scientific approach to angling. Bernard replied, ''I think progress is necessary, but not at the expense of the true spirit of angling.

I have my own view on this with which many would disagree insofar as I would hate to see the development of a magic bait, or in my own case a lure that was infallible. Yes I know it's unlikely to happen, but indulge me, were it to happen would you, or could you embrace it as a hard fact?

thecrow · Nov 13, 2015

If ever I was to discover a bait that was irresistible to fish I think it would be almost impossible not to use it, I doubt it would last very long though as it would become extremely boring, not for me I am afraid for without the harder times the good ones wouldn't be so good.

Bob Hornegold · Nov 13, 2015

Derek Gibson said:
I was reminded of this only yesterday whilst talking with an old angler with over seventy years experience.

The bone of contention revolved around how angling has progressed. It jogged my memory to a statement made by Bernard Venables when asked about Richard Walkers scientific approach to angling. Bernard replied, ''I think progress is necessary, but not at the expense of the true spirit of angling.

I have my own view on this with which many would disagree insofar as I would hate to see the development of a magic bait, or in my own case a lure that was infallible. Yes I know it's unlikely to happen, but indulge me, were it to happen would you, or could you embrace it as a hard fact?

Derek,

It's just over 60 years for me and for most of that time I have been a Specimen Angler.

In that time I have had some Wonder Baits and Methods that rarely failed, but they all blow when the fish wise up to them.

It appears to me that those times are to be embraced, because at there best they don't last long !!

But say you had started fishing 20years ago and you were brought up knowing only the modern ways and the huge fish that have been a privilege to catch over the last twenty years.

Would you not be aggrieved by the losses of these fish to predators or pollutions.

You certainly would not be aware of the likes of Walker or Venables, more likely it would be Bowler or Newman who had guided you into the sport through their efforts in the weeklies ?

The basic's of any fishing are still the same, good water craft, a knowledge of the species you are fishing for and decent bait presentation !!

Bob

binka · Nov 13, 2015

As Bob alluded to there will still be the need to apply watercraft and locate the fish in addition to presenting this wonder bait in an acceptable manner.

Even so, I think I would become very bored very quickly if such a permanent thing were to exist.

pointngo · Nov 13, 2015

I wouldn't use anything like that as part of the game for me is trying things that are a bit leftfield and catching fish using them.

Fishing would lose it's challenge if it was too easy and make it pointless. There's no worthwhile destination without a journey and such a thing would diminish the true art of angling. Bernard Venables' quote sums it up perfectly.

Forced progress is a different animal to natural progress altogether and is largely led by greed from big manufacturers, until they saturate and ruin it as they have in carp fishing. That's their "spirit of angling" for you... bleed it until it's dry!

Lure fishing and predators are already suffering from the same treatment.

For most, angling is about a lot more than just catching fish, which is just the tip of the iceberg really.

Luckily, a magic lure or bait will never exist. That doesn't stop some looking though... or some claiming to have found it! lol

theartist · Nov 13, 2015

Everyone's saying a magic bait doesn't exist or ever will but aren't we using them already?

Hemp, maggots, pellets, chopped worm or bread, take your pick.

thecrow · Nov 13, 2015

Not much magic about them for me yesterday

wanderer · Nov 13, 2015

IF you stuff a water so full of fish that the levels of naturals no longer support the inhabitants, then you already have a magic bait, anything edible. Skill level , watercraft and uncertainty go out of the window, you may have a bad day but catching not fishing becomes the norm. There have been many game changer baits trumpeted over the years, the true test would be a couple of hundred acres of weedy gravel pit with about 70 fish in.

Lord Paul of Sheffield · Nov 13, 2015

Totally agree that a "magic" bait would make fishing boring
I've had days (not many) when I've could have caught with a bare hook (and did)
And to me it gets boring
And then what happens? Well I switch to another bait

barbelboi · Nov 13, 2015

Well put Bob - and I believe your final sentence just about sums it up..............

robtherake · Nov 13, 2015

Wouldn't it be handy, though, for those days when you end up parked next to the world's most obnoxious braggart. :wh

terry m · Nov 13, 2015

barbelboi said:
Well put Bob - and I believe your final sentence just about sums it up..............

Yep, sums it up for me too.

chub_on_the_block · Nov 13, 2015

I am not sure that fish in general have progressed - they do not always require the latest approach or bait - its only waters that get heavily or regularly fished where this might happen, and at those it may be a fleeting killer bait - if you find it, bag up while you still can!!

Derek Gibson · Nov 14, 2015

I have always maintained that angling for whatever species is a never ending jigsaw, long may that continue. For without the mystery element, it would be so boring.

Bob Hornegold · Nov 14, 2015

Derek Gibson said:
I have always maintained that angling for whatever species is a never ending jigsaw, long may that continue. For without the mystery element, it would be so boring.

Derek,

I have fished for Chub in the same way for the last ten years and I will never get bored with catching BIG Chub.

So why change !!

Bob

Derek Gibson · Nov 14, 2015

Bob Hornegold said:
Derek,

I have fished for Chub in the same way for the last ten years and I will never get bored with catching BIG Chub.

So why change !!

Bob

No reason you should change Bob, as you obviously enjoy what you are doing.

Equally, I have spent over 50 years catching big Pike, and I too have enjoyed that immensely, and have put a lot of hard work and study into it. And although I'm able to predict when the opportunities offer the best chance of success, at least on the various waters I've fished, now and again the Pike change the rule book and leave me scratching my head. Not often mind, but enough to cause me to wonder what I have missed. One of those little mysteries to help keep me focused.

laguna · Nov 15, 2015

Ethically speaking (future synthetics development aside), there is, was nor will there ever be the perfect wonder food bait, and a good thing too.

As long as living creatures need variety in their diet, a change bait is all you can hope for.

Bob Hornegold · Nov 15, 2015

Derek Gibson said:
No reason you should change Bob, as you obviously enjoy what you are doing.

Equally, I have spent over 50 years catching big Pike, and I too have enjoyed that immensely, and have put a lot of hard work and study into it. And although I'm able to predict when the opportunities offer the best chance of success, at least on the various waters I've fished, now and again the Pike change the rule book and leave me scratching my head. Not often mind, but enough to cause me to wonder what I have missed. One of those little mysteries to help keep me focused.

Derek

The only thing that changes with the Chub is location, I guess that applies to all species.

If you have a method that works and has accounted for many Big Fish, why would you want to change it ?

I'm sure there others who think there are better ways of catching fish, but I'm happy with my results and cannot see any reason to make it more difficult for myself !!

Bob

steve2 · Nov 15, 2015

I have fished more or less the same way for over 60 years. It works for me so why change it. I decide what i am fishing for, look at the water, and say to myself where would I be if I was a fish. Fish are still very basic creatures they need to eat to stay alive.
I do feel that many want to over complicate what is a very simple sport.

Derek Gibson · Nov 15, 2015

steve2 said:
I have fished more or less the same way for over 60 years. It works for me so why change it. I decide what i am fishing for, look at the water, and say to myself where would I be if I was a fish. Fish are still very basic creatures they need to eat to stay alive.
I do feel that many want to over complicate what is a very simple sport.

It's somewhat different on the specimen hunting field Steve, as you are fishing for the bigger fish of any species, and they represent all but a few of the whole species. And as already has been said ''location'' is of prime importance to even give you a shot at separating them from their smaller brethren. So the process starts with establishing just what the water may hold. Then, location which on the main does not happen overnight, only ''time on the water'' will determine that.

So nothing really complicated Steve.

''Gain or Loss''

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