Bolt rigs, angling or catching fish?

Never been fond of the idea of bolt rigs, angling or catching fish? Izzak Walton or Izza must catch a fish at all costs?
I used to do a bit of long lining, was I fishing or just laying a trap?
If I anchored a lay line down with 50 baited hooks in the river, went back 12 hours later, attached a big rod and reel to the end of it and reeled the whole lot in and found a record roach on it, could I claim a record? Caught with rod and line fair and square.! Or was it? caught a fish for sure, did I angle for it?

Should we not just give them a bit of a chance, use our 5 senses to catch them, sight, hearing, touch etc. Is it not verging on just laying a trap instead of fishing?

Bolt rigs/self hooking rigs to me seem like a trap. A way to hook a fish while you have time to wake up, get out of bed, put on your boots and then finally pick up the rod and reel in.
Never understood this, because most clubs and fisheries state that you must be in control of the rods at all times.

If you don't like something, don't do it. It really is that simple. However, attempting to denigrate others that make a different (legal) choice is quite bizarre.

I don't much like sushi, but I don't try to convince everyone else that they shouldn't like it, or attempt to stop them eating it. That would be quite ridiculous.

Sorry to pick on this particular thread, nothing personal. It applies equally to a multitude of "you don't want to do it like that" threads popping up on this forum.

Hmm, i always use bolt rigs, simply because running rigs do not give you the ability to set a hook correctly at medium range, what if a fish come towards you, dropback, with a bolt its hooked, running rig , half the time it does not even register, it isnt laziness , its efficiency learned over many years, you get less bites, you hook a higher percentage, the choice is personal.

sam vimes said:

If you don't like something, don't do it. It really is that simple. However, attempting to denigrate others that make a different (legal) choice is quite bizarre.

I don't much like sushi, but I don't try to convince everyone else that they shouldn't like it, or attempt to stop them eating it. That would be quite ridiculous.

Sorry to pick on this particular thread, nothing personal. It applies equally to a multitude of "you don't want to do it like that" threads popping up on this forum.

Click to expand...

Not bothered by it, not suggesting its something not to be done. It came to mind after reading the Big Chub feature where someone found they caught bigger chub using this method. Fair enough, it just made me wonder why I never used it and I think its just an instinctive thing, it just feels not quite right. I was going to comment on the Big Chub feature but then I thought why not start a thread on its own, purely just see what others thought, if they felt they same way or differently. I was comparing it to long lining because it has a similar kind of thing about it, trapping fish or angling. It was just a train of thought that came to mind after reading that feature, so why not ask others what they thought. I also dreamed up the hypothetical record fish scenario, just because I thought it was interesting in a way and see what others thought of that, if anything.
but *******s to it, wont bother anymore.

I used to fish tight lines straight through and never really considered fish safety. My quarry was anything that swam, mainly roach because of their abundance and rarely saw a carp so it didn't matter. Then around the mid 70's realised a hook link of higher/lower breaking strain was safer for the fish, but if I'm honest, I really only used a lower breaking strain hook link to go lighter and increase my chances of catching, unwittingly my rigs became safer as a result.

Bolt rigs were just that, fixed and with little thought about safety or the need to use semi-fixed or inline. But one of my favourite leads at the time was a little inline coffin for stillwater... it was used because it was there in my tackle box. If I hadn't owned one I might have used, nay would have used, a overly big arlesey bomb intended for rivers instead but in any case, I always stopped the inline with a swivel 4" up the line, effectively a bolt rig.
Its only since the mid 80's that I started using free-running inline and now with fish safety at the forefront of my, and everyone's mind (thanks in part to better understanding of carp), I always fish semi-fixed inline for all large species when ledgering. Or free-running if rules dictate.

Nothing wrong with fishing bolt rigs, the skill is to outwit with intelligence a feeble simple creature with greater senses than our own.

But I'm not entirely happy.... for one thing I hate the lead clip design as they are far from being idiot proof.

Time for a change me thinks

No matter how you fish, or how you look at it, ALL anglers lay traps.

As soon as you start feeding to draw the fish in, your laying the trap, your trap is the hook and line, simple as that.

As Anglers we are hunters, some may not like it, but its fact, the only thing most of us don't do is kill the fish.

Bolt rigs are for those who can't catch a fish by striking.

markg said:

Not bothered by it, not suggesting its something not to be done. It came to mind after reading the Big Chub feature where someone found they caught bigger chub using this method. Fair enough, it just made me wonder why I never used it and I think its just an instinctive thing, it just feels not quite right. I was going to comment on the Big Chub feature but then I thought why not start a thread on its own, purely just see what others thought, if they felt they same way or differently. I was comparing it to long lining because it has a similar kind of thing about it, trapping fish or angling. It was just a train of thought that came to mind after reading that feature, so why not ask others what they thought. I also dreamed up the hypothetical record fish scenario, just because I thought it was interesting in a way and see what others thought of that, if anything.
but *******s to it, wont bother anymore.

Click to expand...

markg

And did you learn anything from the article ?

Bolt rigs have nothing what so ever to do with Set Lines, they are single hooks, not multiple hooks that are tethered ?

And I think some on here don't understand the term Bolt Rig, it's about the pricking of the fish when it takes a bait and bolts off, just as effective with a heavy running lead as it is with a fixed or semi fixed lead or with a hair rig or bait on the hook.

There are a number on this site who have their fishing background in Match fishing and know nothing about specimen fishing and how it's developed.

It must be the best part of 40 years since the bolt rigs were mentioned, in conjunctions with side hooked boilies and running leads by Jim G.

And yes, it's both angling and catching ?

Bob

Bob Hornegold said:

And I think some on here don't understand the term Bolt Rig, it's about the pricking of the fish when it takes a bait and bolts off, just as effective with a heavy running lead as it is with a fixed or semi fixed lead or with a hair rig or bait on the hook.

There are a number on this site who have their fishing background in Match fishing and know nothing about specimen fishing and how it's developed.

Click to expand...

I'd be very surprised if any of the match lads weren't familiar with the concept of a bolt rig Bob, given the proliferation of the method feeder throughout commie match fishing.

Ray Daywalker Clarke said:

No matter how you fish, or how you look at it, ALL anglers lay traps.

As soon as you start feeding to draw the fish in, your laying the trap, your trap is the hook and line, simple as that.

As Anglers we are hunters, some may not like it, but its fact, the only thing most of us don't do is kill the fish.

Bolt rigs are for those who can't catch a fish by striking.

Click to expand...

Actually, your right, thinking more on it it is all laying a trap. And it is all fishing. My train of thought was is there a line between whats fishing and what is angling.. Fishing with a net is fishing but you wouldn't call it angling. Same with long lining but you wouldn't say it was angling. Of course long lining is not the same as using a bolt rig but the similarity is you wait for fish to hook themselves. However, after thinking it through I think I have it wrong, all fishing with a rod is angling whatever the method and all fishing without a rod is just fishing. That is the distinction, perhaps that's where the word angling came from, something to do with the angle of the rod; I do not know, just a guess.

---------- Post added at 08:11 ---------- Previous post was at 07:52 ----------

Bob Hornegold said:

markg

And did you learn anything from the article ?

Bolt rigs have nothing what so ever to do with Set Lines, they are single hooks, not multiple hooks that are tethered ?

Bob

Click to expand...

Yes I did learn something from it and enjoyed the article, it was very good and I was not trying to degenerate the method or anyone using it, I did not think my post did that. I have never consciously disliked the method, never thought about it much before but the article made me think about it and ask myself why I had never tried it before although I have fished for many years. I realized, "subconsciously" I did not like the idea of the method. And I started to debate with myself why, and then I thought I would open the debate with other anglers on this forum to see what they thought. Because that is what I do and what a forum is for. When I cannot do that then there is no point of the forum for me.

Nevertheless, some interesting replies which has made me think it through a bit more and understand the method and what others do think about it and I get a bit more education about it.

---------- Post added at 08:21 ---------- Previous post was at 08:11 ----------

Bob Hornegold said:

markg

Bolt rigs have nothing what so ever to do with Set Lines, they are single hooks, not multiple hooks that are tethered ?

Bob

Click to expand...

I realize that Bob, it was just the similarity where you wait for a fish to hook itself that came to mind. This set my mind off in the direction of the far fetched scenario; if I laid a long line in a river and caught a record fish; could a claim a record?. It was just an academic question put out of academic interest, no more. Could I do that and what would anglers think of it if I did; could the record committee refuse such a fish?. I just thought it was an interesting idea-No answers but I bet if it did happen, that would set a few arguments going across many forums.
but *******s to it, if its offensive, I will have any such future debates with myself.

I know this is slightly off the point, but quite often when I catch a carp its mouth is damaged and distorted. Is this because of it being caught on a bolt rig? I don't spend much time carp fishing, so I honestly don't know, I can't understand how their tough rubbery lips get in such a mess.

robertroach said:

I know this is slightly off the point, but quite often when I catch a carp its mouth is damaged and distorted. Is this because of it being caught on a bolt rig? I don't spend much time carp fishing, so I honestly don't know, I can't understand how their tough rubbery lips get in such a mess.

Click to expand...

Apparently the rest of us only use bolt rigs because we cant strike fish properly.

Actually its probably a combination of a few things and a very relevant question not off topic at all Robert.
Some will say its barbless hooks that cause it
Some will say its barbed hooks that cause it
Some will say its braid that causes it
Others will say its inexperienced anglers dragging fish out without playing them properly


Whatever the reason, I'm pretty sure its not bolt rigs that cause lip damage to the extent we see all too often.

laguna said:

Apparently the rest of us only use bolt rigs because we cant strike fish properly.

Actually its probably a combination of a few things and a very relevant question not off topic at all Robert.
Some will say its barbless hooks that cause it
Some will say its barbed hooks that cause it
Some will say its braid that causes it
Others will say its inexperienced anglers dragging fish out without playing them properly


Whatever the reason, I'm pretty sure its not bolt rigs that cause lip damage to the extent we see all too often.

Click to expand...

I can see no other reason for the use of a bolt rig, other than anglers not being able to strike into a fish on a take. Surely striking into a fish is all part and parcel of fishing. A fish hooking itself, is that fishing ???, not in my book, but each to their own. I wonder why so many waters now ban bolt rigs ??

As for mouth damage, it's more likely to be a combination of all the above, i don't think it is down to just one factor.

It's strange how some folk think of self hooking rigs as being somehow un sporting, not quite cricket, due to not having to "strike" a take. When trout fishing buzzers on the drift the fish will often take the flies so hard that they are well and trult hooked, and absolutely no strike is required. But, of course, nobody wants to criticise that, because it isn't carp fishing.

Angling to me is catching fish as elegant as I can. To me that doesn't involve bolt rigs but if someone else sees it his way, that's perfectly ok.
After all elegance is a subjective matter which closely relates to taste. Let's be honest here: I may find I'm fishing in an elegant way, we're all piercing fish for our pleasure.

Stumbling on the subject of damaged lips: I think there is a relation between the effectiveness of modern tackle, the lack of responsibility of some anglers and damaged lips. F.i. the availability of heavy rods and ultra strong lines didn't make things better for the carp population, especially on heavily fished waters. Bolt rigs are effective and they do coincide with mentioned tackle. But that doesn't mean bolt rigs are the cause of lip damage.

Lip damage is caused by using brute force, clumsy unhooking and not cutting the hook when necessary. I get carried away a bit when I think about this. A carp with a damaged mouth makes me sad and realize what a gentle creature it is. Fish are non voluntary partners in the game we play -whatever way it's played- and deserve some respect.

Ray Daywalker Clarke said:

I can see no other reason for the use of a bolt rig, other than anglers not being able to strike into a fish on a take. Surely striking into a fish is all part and parcel of fishing. A fish hooking itself, is that fishing ???, not in my book, but each to their own. I wonder why so many waters now ban bolt rigs ??

As for mouth damage, it's more likely to be a combination of all the above, i don't think it is down to just one factor.

Click to expand...

A bolt rig can be every bit as efficient if not better than a strike imo.
and.... No need to strike when you can simply lift into em is there? which technically is also a strike, just a question of different forces applied.

Its the inexperienced 'striking' brigade that causes concern of most of the lip damage a lot of the time. Whereas a bolt rig works by pricking the fish under less pressure than a striking angler might, of course we also get anglers who also use bolt rigs and strike as well. But how do you know what size fish is on the end at depth or distance? Its not always a screaming run every time and guaranteed big one... applying the same striking force each time hoping its a record breaker, would rip the face from a pastie carp wouldn't it?

As to bolt rigs. There is a clear distinction between fixed, semi-fixed and in-line.

Fixed
Unless you can be absolutely certain there are no big species present, fixed is a no no theseday's as its potentially a tether rig should the mainline break.

Semi-fixed
Better and still self hooking but the lead clip systems are not fool proof. I have witnessed anglers super-gluing them on for fear of losing a £1.50 lead. I have also witnessed inexperienced anglers not pushing the swivel all the way into the sleeve so the lead cannot possibly eject (the hybid is an improvement). Not as safe as they could be if leads don't eject as intended. Putting them directly on the hooklink instead of the mainline... I kid you not!

Inline
These will also self hook over a distance or angle of take due to water pressure and resistance of angle. Not a bolt rig per se but they can act like one, especially close in when fishing tight lines and clutches.

There is a need for bolt rigs. They work and they work rather well if done right and can ensure a level of safety in the hands of both the experienced and inexperienced angler. It is not always possible or necessary to strike at everything. You cannot for example always strike at a fish coming towards you without first taking up slack line.



Ps. I have it on very good authority... a very very safe (one component + lead) semi-fixed in-line lead system is up for testing next year - No clips or anything and it can be free running too if you normally like to fish that way.

As i said each to their own.

I striking into a fish doesn't do anymore damage than a bolt rig. The damage comes from anglers not knowing how to unhook a fish in the correct way.

On the side of barbless hooks, i know venues where barbless only are allowed, yet mouth damage is present in a great number of fish, why, who knows.

It's not all about carp anglers as carp anglers seem to think, Carp are not the only fish with mouth damage.

Yes each to their own Ray agree with that but cumon... striking into a fish hard, how can that possibly be compared to what minimal damage (if any) a bolt rig would cause?

Little challenge that i once set the long casting running rig brigade, go to your local park, cast a lead as far as you can, get your mate to go and hold the business end, then strike and see how far you can move the hook, factor in line stretch, gravel bars, weed and deep water cushioning and tell us whether you beleive that you will successfully set a hook.

Ray Daywalker Clarke said:

It's not all about carp anglers as carp anglers seem to think, Carp are not the only fish with mouth damage.

Click to expand...

No, it's a thread about bolt rigs being against the "spirit" of angling, not mouth damage. And as bolt rigs are most closely associated with carp fishing, it is clearly about it; when was the last time anyone fished bolt rigs for gudgeon?