What makes a club a syndicate? (what's the difference?)

Keith M · Jan 17, 2016

When is a water a syndicate water or Just a club water?

I fish a beautiful and remote private Estate Lake which our club has leased for well over 70 years.

The club has a limited membership because in our lease the landowner stipulates that we have no more than a certain number of members and so you are often the only person there.

To cover the cost of the lease; our membership fees are higher than a lot of other small clubs; the club is run by its members for its members and no-one other than the landowner makes any monetary gain.

We have a very long waiting list and sometimes it's like waiting for dead men's shoes to actually get into the club.
To actually get onto the waiting list in the first place you need to be proposed by an existing club member who can vouch for you.

But to us it isn't a Syndicate, is it???; It's just a small club who happens to fish a very beautiful and remote Estate Lake which the members really care about, and wants to keep it well looked after.

So what makes it a Syndicate water or just a Club water?
Isn't the word 'Syndicate' often a bit misleading?

The Estate lake showing the two islands on the left in early spring before the lilies started to erupt.
There's another area of the lake behind me with a very old and picturesc brick bridge running between the two parts of the lake.

Keith

slaphead · Jan 17, 2016

To my mind, syndicates are expensive clubs.

stu_the_blank · Jan 17, 2016

Lovely looking lake Keith.

We have a very similar arrangement but we think of ourselves a Syndicate!

Eye of the beholder I suspect

Stu

sam vimes · Jan 17, 2016

A genuine syndicate is a small(ish) group of like-minded anglers co-operating to lease a single water. Not much different to a club other than in scale. If a club is severely restricted in numbers and operates just one water it could easily be considered a syndicate.

Many syndicates aren't the real thing. One bloke paying the rent then selling expensive, but limited, season tickets to make a profit is not a true syndicate. The membership having little or no say in how the fishery is operated is also a tell tale indicator.

To my mind, a genuine club will usually operate multiple waters or stretches of river. It will not have any restrictions on the number of anglers that buy a ticket, though individual waters may have number restrictions at any one time.

There are plenty of grey areas, but, for me, the essential differences between a club and a syndicate is scale of membership and number of waters. AGMs, EGMs and committees are also a fair indicator of a fishing body being a club.

wanderer · Jan 18, 2016

Enjoy Keith, who cares, i have something similar but larger, we are blessed with these venues, no records but pure peace, heaven itself.

thecrow · Jan 18, 2016

I think Sam's description of a syndicate is spot on, I have belonged to proper syndicates but also belonged to the other sort that Sam describes the former run by the anglers the other there just to make the owner a living, they are in my view nothing more than commercials with a limited membership. Not that their is anything wrong with an angler fishing a commercial if that what they want to do.

There are single species groups that have no waters of their own but have been allowed through negotiation with the controlling club to form a group of anglers that are allowed to fish these waters at night, these groups are called syndicates but to my mind they are not as they are governed by 2 sets of rules the first being those of the club and the second being those of the species group, I know of one such "syndicate" where the night "syndicate" has a strict no publicity rule but the controlling club have no such rule, even worse day tickets are available for the water with no such rule.

It is my belief that some anglers like to belong to what they see as a syndicate because it gives them a feeling of superiority over other none syndicate anglers.

Pete Shears · Jan 18, 2016

I agree with Sam - a club usually has a Chairman,Treasurer,Membership Secretary & possibly its own bailiffs and have multiple waters for members to enjoy.
A syndicate,as I have always understood it, is where an individual acquires the fishing on a water having negotiated with the riparian owner on cost, numbers allowed to fish at any time etc. A 'syndicate' referring enquiries to the membership secretary or similar is a club but the snob value obviously kicks in.

terry m · Jan 18, 2016

Agree with most of the above, but in addition, generally syndicates are perceived as more exclusive, based on either ability to gain entry, or premium pricing.

As others say, if you enjoy where you fish, who cares what it is called?

wanderer · Jan 18, 2016

thecrow said:
I think Sam's description of a syndicate is spot on, I have belonged to proper syndicates but also belonged to the other sort that Sam describes the former run by the anglers the other there just to make the owner a living, they are in my view nothing more than commercials with a limited membership. Not that their is anything wrong with an angler fishing a commercial if that what they want to do.

There are single species groups that have no waters of their own but have been allowed through negotiation with the controlling club to form a group of anglers that are allowed to fish these waters at night, these groups are called syndicates but to my mind they are not as they are governed by 2 sets of rules the first being those of the club and the second being those of the species group, I know of one such "syndicate" where the night "syndicate" has a strict no publicity rule but the controlling club have no such rule, even worse day tickets are available for the water with no such rule.

It is my belief that some anglers like to belong to what they see as a syndicate because it gives them a feeling of superiority over other none syndicate anglers.

Maybe they just want a bit of peace and not be confronted with rubbish bags hanging on a bush or someone deffecating in their swim, or be plagued by drunks and druggies, you take it as you find, me i will stick to the syndicates, at least we can blackball the idiots, and it works out cheaper if you do a lot of fishing, as for the other been there got the teeshirt, no thanks.

Ray Daywalker Clarke · Jan 18, 2016

I agree with most of the above. I have found that Syndicates are mainly, smaller in member numbers, mostly close friends, family etc,etc., and operate just a single water. I do know of one local syndicate thats has a couple of waters and a long waiting list.

Being a member of a club, and a couple of single waters, I am also in a consortium of clubs that run a few waters between them. The reason for this is simple, the price of the lease on the waters, one club couldn't afford them.

It works very well, keeps the waters open to anglers. The clubs make up the rules between them, and all the clubs members take turns in work party's. This gives the clubs additional waters to fish, and helps keep down the cost of membership to the consortium.

The single waters i fish are not syndicate. You buy your yearly permit, you have a date to renew the following year, if you don't renew, your ticket goes out on a first come first served basis. No waiting list. The waters are run by the land owners, and members do a work party with the landowners groundsman.

daniel121 · Jan 18, 2016

I may be completely wrong but I thought

A syndicate was a group of equal people buying a equal share of a product. Ran democratically by all syndicate members.

A club is a committee ran for its members elected by its members. A club can make a small profit or loss

That's what I thought anyway

wanderer · Jan 19, 2016

Many variations of both Daniel, clubs are usually dominated by the match brigade and used for their own ends, particularly at weekends at everyone elses expense, true syndicates are rare, but limited groups of the like minded looking after a limited membership water in the interest of land owner and angler alike, is a great concept, not a true syndicate but a common interest in the fish and their environment.

terry m · Jan 19, 2016

Also worth looking at it from the point of view of the owner of the water.

Club - lots of people on your property, possible troublemakers, rule benders and pi$$takers.

Syndicate - Much fewer, generally known individuals, usually more adherence to rules and codes because they don't want to lose access to the syndicate.

Dependant on arrangements, the club approach may seem more altruistic and attract a greater income, but I know which option I would be more comfortable with.

Peter Jacobs · Jan 19, 2016

Our syndicate consists of around 100 experienced anglers, many of whom live and work overseas but regularly return to fish this stretch of the Hampshire Avon.

The riparian owner is far happier to rent to us as he sees this as producing a much reduced foot-fall over his land (compared to renting to a large club) and yet he maintains a regular and decent income.

Each syndicate member has a say in how the group is run and in the 10 years that I've been a member we have never had any disagreements which is very much unlike my local (and very large) club.

thecrow · Jan 19, 2016

Syndicate 1 is run democratically by the anglers and any profit made goes back into maintaining the water/stocks/bankside. Members of this kind of syndicate are usually those that are known to existing members.

Syndicate 2 is run to make a profit for the syndicate controller little say in running the water or reinvestment of any profit, they are commercials with a limited membership, membership numbers in this type of syndicate are in my experience always higher than number 1.

I have belonged to both types ( I was secretary of a number 1 type) in all cases the number 1 type has been the one that suited my fishing best with membership numbers in the number 2 type always increasing on the controllers whim.

dann · Jan 19, 2016

Peter Jacobs said:
Our syndicate consists of around 100 experienced anglers

Sorry for the slight hijack but may I ask what the difference is between an experienced angler and an inexperienced one when it comes to belonging to a syndicate? Do inexperienced anglers leave rubbish and behave badly or have I missed something?

terry m · Jan 19, 2016

I would generalise and say that experienced anglers are likely to be less fractious by virtue of the fact that they understand angling protocols and expectations far better than a typical inexperienced angler. Fishing too close on rivers, casting across, making unacceptable noise, etc etc.

thecrow · Jan 19, 2016

terry m said:
making unacceptable noise,

Such as frying bacon upwind of you while you are hungry

chub_on_the_block · Jan 19, 2016

I prefer the idea of being on a club water or syndicate with restricted number of members but where it is open and transparent for all to find out about and to join - if they can afford the price etc - rather than a murky unpublicised syndicate where it is all about who you know that can get you on the water. I prefer the idea of a waiting list - at least those that get in the club/syndicate will have shown the commitment to do so. I would have thought this would attract the better anglers too - they would be well experienced by the time they got on the water!

I fished a private estate lake for a few years which was effectively a syndicate in that only about 8 season tickets were sold, it was just relatively unknown lake these days (no carp) and was not visible from a road. I have a current season ticket for an estate lake on a National Trust property where i think only 3 tickets were sold this year...because sadly there are no fish in it!.

sagalout · Jan 19, 2016

dann said:
Do inexperienced anglers leave rubbish and behave badly or have I missed something?

No, bad behavior is not restricted, rsoles are rsoles.

What makes a club a syndicate? (what's the difference?)

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