Location, Location, Location.

wanderer

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 12, 2015
Messages
928
Reaction score
0
Location
NENE VALLEY
Right guys this has divided opinion by a lot of anglers after the capture of the Parrot, just want to see how it sits with you guys. I have been told that carp are creatures of habit, patrolling the same routes everyday, i dont go with this view.An educated friend who has just joined me on here gave me food for thought, bait is irrelivant, , position is everything. Moon phase, temp, angling pressure and environmental conditions decide where fish will be at any given time. This emphasises the need for journals on every water seriously fished. The wind direction and air pressure come in to play here as does the distributon of naturals. The most stable conditions with the lack of alternatives occurs during winter. So given weather conditions changing all the time, do you beleive a wild creature is as predictable as we beleive, or whether, a lot of factors come in to play to determine the position of a carp, during all seasonsof the year.
 

Alan Tyler

Well-known member
Joined
May 2, 2003
Messages
4,282
Reaction score
51
Location
Barnet, S.Herts/N. London
Fish vary.
Salmon are "supposed" to return to the beck in which they were spawned, and many do, but a fair few go exploring, motivated by necessity - their native river has been dammed, polluted, shifted its course, blocked by landside, whatever - or deficiency - impaired sense of smell/taste or memory - or sheer curiosity.
Which is good, because most of the rivers of North-West Europe are only about 10,000 years old, and would be devoid of salmon if none went a-wandering.

Carp are probably more curious and individualistic than salmon, they feed by taste and smell more than sight, and the only way to find out if a new food is good is to try it - if they were little robots that only eat live food, boilies wouldn't be much use, would they?

I seem to recall that tagging experiments with barbel showed that some are "rovers", while others prefer to be "residents". The Bad One will know better than I.

While humans are very proud of our individuality, it isn't a solely human quality, and the levels of any stimulus that provoke a given response will vary from individual to individual within species a long way down the evolutionary tree, probably to its very root-hairs.

This may mean that one fish can be caught by a careful study of its habits, while a flightier/moodier one of the same species will only ever be wrong-footed/finned by blind chance, I'd have thought.
 

laguna

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 14, 2011
Messages
3,280
Reaction score
27
Location
Bradford, West Yorkshire
I think location and presentation of bait in the usual spots change this time of year. Providing you get all the other environmental variables right, fish can be found away from cover and will venture out. If the bait is good you will catch no matter where you put it.

**** bait will work to a point too.. normally when stocking levels are high or when there's ****** all else to eat.

Without doubt, quality bait reigns supreme, it will always pick out the better fish if positioned and presented in the right place when angling pressure is high... good quality bait will also work in other areas away from the patrol as well. Obviously you need to find them first or coax em out of their hidey holes. Creatures of habit yes, carp will patrol and usually frequent known areas, especially around cover as a matter of instinct. But.... big fish are wise fish and do not get big by slipping up all that often therefore likely to feed very cautiously in those areas as chances are; they have been targeted and caught before in those areas where angling pressure and **** baits spook em.
If food is in short supply they will likely venture away from usual routes and with less angling pressure will feed... especially in mild conditions.. little and NOT too often. Assume commercial fishery carp here where 90% of their diet consists of anglers bait. The 'plop plop' sound of bait entering the water will draw them in, as will gravel if you don't wish to fill em up, and to some extent flavours from afar but if those flavours are artificial... the big old carp will know about it and may well refuse it.

Chub will venture out in the main flow when safe to do so i.e. in low visibility light and turbid conditions, otherwise they stay put under and around cover in my experience. The unmistakable smell of a trotted crust or feeder full of mash soaked in blue cheese SAC juice will draw them out though. :w
 

dann

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 24, 2015
Messages
153
Reaction score
0
Location
West Berkshire
I am reading this with interest.

I have a regular spot on the canal that I know holds roach, dace and perch, I have been there maybe 15 times and about 12 of these times I have had a good number of fish.

On the the other times, it's dead. Not a bite, bubble, nudge or sign of a fish. Bait, presentation and everything else is exactly the same. The only pattern seems to be the dead days are much colder.

Is it likely that the fish are still there, just schoaled up tight not feeding or is it likely that they would move off to deeper water as the water will be warmer?
 

nocturnus anglius

Active member
Joined
Jan 30, 2016
Messages
35
Reaction score
0
I think you have to treat carp or any fresh water non migratory fish as solar panels, they'll always gravitate towards heat.
It's always been common knowledge to be on the end of a new wind, but this doesn't always sit well with me.
I tend to look at the temperature of the wind in relation with the daily temperature. If say the daily temperature is 10 degrees, but the wind temperature is going to bring it down by a couple of degrees I'd tend to fish in the back of it, at the calmer end, if the sun was out.
Angling pressure plays a big role, particularly on smaller venues. The times I have found best are when the majority of anglers are packing up after ca weekends fishing. Usually Sunday afternoon, if you can tailor your fishing to this time, you certainly put the odds in your favour.
I've fished right from Friday mornings until Monday nights, and bites didn't usually start until Sunday afternoon, and this isn't an isolated event either.
I think the fish know when they are being targeted the most and for the better part behave in a more cautious manner.
I'm not a big believer in high or low pressures nowadays, to many waters have bigger decisive factors.
I try to imagine where I would be comfortable and start looking there, sunny, calmer water, or away from pressure.
Another aspect I will point out though that never really gets mentioned is how you approach your swim.
A lot of anglers in my opinion ruin their own fishing before they have even started, I can't remember who said it now, but it's always stuck with me.

If the fish know your there, you've already halved your chances.

It particularly prevalent in my case because I do fish small waters and know how carp react to anything out of the ordinary.

I used to spend a lot of time watching my quarry, seeing how they approach a certain spot, seeing where they go, to try and see if any patterns emerge, this in itself can teach you an awful lot.

There's a lot written about Thermocline's as well, as fish spend most of their lives mid water due to differing temperatures. I think I'm right in saying, in winter, carp will usually be at the bottom of the middle third.
Roughly translated
Split the depth up into thirds, so if you have 12ft of water, the lower third will be 0 to 4ft, the middle will be 4 to 8ft and the upper will be 8 to 12ft.
The theory is cold water sinks, until it reaches a layer on the bottom of the middle third where it starts to warm up again and starts to rise.
(please correct me if im wrong this is just from memory)
The bottom third is pretty much a constant temperature, and fish won't want to feed if it's colder in that layer.

I think that's right lol

Slight correction
As water cools it sinks, once it reaches 3 degrees it rises again again :)
 
Last edited:

robtherake

Well-known member
Joined
May 20, 2013
Messages
3,252
Reaction score
3
Location
North Yorkshire
In addition to what's already been mentioned, with relation to the OP's subject, a book I read recently referred to yet another book entitled "The Phenological Fly." Phenology is the study of how changes in seasonal weather affect the emergence of the various flora and fauna; in this case it was in relation to the various insects that salmonids feed on and how it affects the beginning of the season, but the same approach can naturally be used for other species. The book itself is rather expensive (so I won't be getting a copy anytime soon!) but the subject itself is widely covered online and can be studied at leisure. It is FASCINATING!!! Well, it is to this nerd, at least. :)

There's a UK initiative to turn us all into phenologists, logging the first appearance of various flowers, insects, animals and birds and probably fungi, too, in order to better understand their annual emergences and how they relate to one another and the effect that planetary warming's having on what emerges when and how it's affecting all things natural. Anyone can get involved and it's done through this site: Nature's Calendar

The long-winded point that I'm dragging out here is that we - as regular observers because of our particular interest - can discover for ourselves (in a way that was probably common knowledge in the days before mechanisation) - that the natural happenings which bookmark our year are related to the seasonal feeding patterns of the fish we catch and can be read by an alert observer. I'm sure some of you already do this to a certain extent - knowingly or not - but it's something we could all learn from, I'm sure. Those old rhymes weren't made up for nothing: "Never cast a clout till May is out" refers to the blossom, not the month, and signifies, presumably, the time when it's safe to leave your winter clothing at home, prompted by an easily spotted phenological event. Does the same event coincide with the fish "waking up" from their dormancy? It just might, you know...:)
 
Top