Generation X or Y

I haven't posted for a while but I have still read , with great interest , the posts here , I always did there is a helluva lot to be learned from forums. My son bought a Jag recently , lucky lad but he works hard , it developed a few faults but his older brother has been putting himself through college to get an NVQ in vehicle maintenance was able to fix them via a few Jaguar forums.

It made me wonder what people did before forums , wasn’t that long ago , if you couldn't figure something out yourself you had to wait till it happened to a mate , experience was very hard won and very very prized if you were a mechanic ( or an angler ) you had little chance to learn.

So how does that relate to fishing ? We have a dichotomy between a real work ethic ( anyone born in the sixties has it ) and the viper quick learning of the millennial generation ( generation Y ).

Generation Y has access to a thousand anglers tales , all manner of tips and tricks around being as effective as possible on the bank , I have seen my lad do it , in fact I have done it – catching fish that would have been a dream in the fifties and sixties ( when my old man used a grass stalk to secure luncheon meat ) plus I have better gear , better transport , better ( tactical angling ) intelligence than my predecessors in the fifties.

So I propose that today’s anglers are much better than all the ( oh he was such a gent ) anglers of the 50's because we have better knowledge and better kit.

So any angler here given their knowledge and their access to knowledge and their kit would have been a legend in the post war fifties UK

Well, I don't like to boast...

Actually, I do OK, but putting all that internet-derived knowledge together on the bank and using the right tactic at the right time with the right bait is something that only practice and deeper understanding can bring. I was a far better angler when I was able to fish several times a week: practice makes perfect, as the saying goes.

The vast bank of information that is available on the internet is useless unless you have the skills and basic knowledge to filter it and apply it to your personal situation. In some ways, I feel sorry for newbies, the amount of info out there must be daunting.

Pre internet days hard won information was something that was not passed around for all and sundry to use, I was lucky enough when I was younger to benefit from information sharing within specimen and single species groups but even then there were always bits that were kept back by those who had the info to share and who could blame them when they had done all the hard work themselves, angling would be very boring if everything was handed to an angler on a plate.

Would modern anglers with modern tackle and baits have been angling stars years ago? I am not so sure, yes your average modern angler would possibly catch more but that might just be because rivers were in much better condition than they are now with the associated higher fish stocks.

A lot of anglers nowadays are after quick results and because of this they imo fail to learn the basics such as watercraft and stealth relying more on baits and rigs that have been pushed by tackle and bait manufactures so imo much more has been lost than gained when it comes to angling skills.

Agree with all of the replies so far.

Yes it's easy to get information and buy some great ready made, purpose designed rig bits instead of having to make your own but unless you know how and when to use them along with other essentials of weather, watercraft and feeding then you're likely to be heading for as many falls as successes.

On a general, non-celebrity level there certainly doesn't seem to be the amount of really good all rounders coming through the ranks as there used to be unless it's just the circles I move in and aren't aware of them.

I've always preferred to do the 'ground work' and find out for myself. Far more satisfying - also I can rely on authenticity of the information gained ..............

PS Benny, I was a legend in the 50's - I caught a two and a half pound tench............

If you transported **** Walker to the modern era I am certain he would have taken advantage of technology and that would include carbon rods, finer tackle and fishing forums.

If you transported Binka back to the fifties ( assuming he didn't Binka the machine and end up in the Jurassic era ) then I think he would stand out among other anglers not only for his gear but for the access to knowledge he has gained ( and shared ) on forums.

I remember a parents evening in the early seventies where my teacher and my Dad and I spent most of the evening discussing how to hook luncheon meat using a blade of grass. These days that information is freely available and its much easier for an angler to climb the learning curve rather than having to do it in isolation. I'd guess the only thing that has changed is the number of matches has decreased.

Still I say that given the gear and access to information , and the fact that there are still ( some ) people around with a decent work ethic that the modern angler is a better angler.

bennygesserit said:

If you transported **** Walker to the modern era I am certain he would have taken advantage of technology and that would include carbon rods, finer tackle and fishing forums.

If you transported Binka back to the fifties ( assuming he didn't Binka the machine and end up in the Jurassic era ) then I think he would stand out among other anglers not only for his gear but for the access to knowledge he has gained ( and shared ) on forums.

I remember a parents evening in the early seventies where my teacher and my Dad and I spent most of the evening discussing how to hook luncheon meat using a blade of grass. These days that information is freely available and its much easier for an angler to climb the learning curve rather than having to do it in isolation. I'd guess the only thing that has changed is the number of matches has decreased.

Still I say that given the gear and access to information , and the fact that there are still ( some ) people around with a decent work ethic that the modern angler is a better angler.

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DW pioneered and developed carbon rods, together with Hardy...........

**** Walker with a carbon rod? That's up there with Bob Dylan and electric guitar!!

To be fair though, you're right. I would also agree with the replies so far (especially the one about the Time Machine being Binka'd - that's a cert!!)

Being born in the 60s with no family or friends into fishing, I had to go the self taught route which I thoroughly enjoyed and, whereby, I would think about every session and what changes I could make for next time.

Trouble nowadays is that success has to be instant otherwise there are simply too many diversions - most that don't involve wind, rain and the like. Still, give me Kingfishers, reed warblers, shooting stars and the many things I've seen on the bank. That, for me, is living.

Angling ability follows the usual bell distribution curve with a few that are and always will be exceptional and at the bottom end the hopeless, with the great majority of 'average' ability. That an angler of today might know far more and have access to much better kit than great anglers of the past such as Benny Ashurst, Billy Lane, Ivan Marks, or their specimen hunter equivalents may be true but an average match angler of today transported back 50 or 60 years and made to use the tackle of the time, with the rules of the time might find things far harder than expected. How many of today's match anglers could, for instance, fish the Welland of 1970 with a Lee's Golden Jubilee and zoomer float and groundbait by hand across to the far bank without a catapult. The exceptional anglers of the modern era would have cut it with the greats of the past, Alan Scotthorne, Terry Hearn, Terry Lampard , but not Joe Average. Would a modern match angler cope with the 8,000 peg BAA Annual of the early 50s, with silk lines, 5 yard pegs, a 3 hour match, and a 2 mile walk each way to his peg?

I was fortunate in the 60s that I had a mentor who taught me everything that was pertinent then to the fishing we did.
Even now I use the same styles of fishing when fishing canals with squats, bread punch. Or bloodworm, a bait that was shown to me a little later around the late 70s early 80s by another angler.
You're right nowadays information can be found anywhere by just asking.
I don't think we should cock a snook at those newer to angling for grabbing knowledge where ever it is.
If you are new to anything information is power, get it where ever you can.

Mark Wintle said:

Angling ability follows the usual bell distribution curve with a few that are and always will be exceptional and at the bottom end the hopeless, with the great majority of 'average' ability.....

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Mark, I fear we are both "bell-enders" - but at opposite ends of the distribution! mg:

Tight Lines :thumbs:

greenie62 said:

Mark, I fear we are both "bell-enders" - but at opposite ends of the distribution! mg:

Tight Lines :thumbs:

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Brings a whole new meaning to insulting a chap.

mightyboosh said:

The vast bank of information that is available on the internet is useless unless you have the skills and basic knowledge to filter it and apply it to your personal situation. In some ways, I feel sorry for newbies, the amount of info out there must be daunting.

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Boosh. I agree. As a youngster I really did struggle to relate "Mr Crabtree" and "Angling Times" articles to the places I had access to. They seemed like a different 1950's planet.

Also I read an interview recently where a successful matchman was asked why he didn't mind giving away his secrets in print. His reply was words to the effect of " in one ear and out the other. Any notice they take will be short lived and they will revert to their standard set ways very quickly"

Sometimes on this thread an obvious beginner will despite all the literature available ask a seemingly simple basic question you have to think "now where do I begin"
Those on here try to be as helpful as possible but .............
the best but harshest answer sometimes is to just go and fish and it will come to you.

In many respects, I'm not sure that a vast amount has changed. There are still an enormous number of (occasional/fairweather) anglers that aren't chock full of ability. However, chances are that they have access to gear, fisheries and information that their predecessors could only dream of. In their defence, they are simply enjoying themselves as they see fit and aren't necessarily that serious about their angling.

The next tier are the more enthusiastic amateurs. There are differing degrees of ability in there, but it's this tier of enthusiasts that are likely to make up the bulk of an angling forum's regular posters. In the past, this group would never have gained any attention outside of a very localized area. The best of them would have been local legends on a certain river or stillwater. Now the best of them can garner a bit more attention via the various internet outlets.

The final tier is the pros, high level matchmen, trade involved etc etc. Many of this level of angler are built up as angling gods. Some certainly have an awful lot of ability, but not all necessarily have more than the best of the teir below. My experience of anglers at this level has been quite mixed. Some are truly phenomenal. Others are nothing very special, in terms of angling ability, even when they have stunning PB lists or solid match records. I find that what sets many apart comes down to factors including time, money, access to waters and trade involvement. It's not a case of sour grapes or green eyed monster, I don't wish for the same or begrudge them their successes. It's merely an observation after some small time involvement on the very periphery. I've also seen similar in another similar sporting sphere.

greenie62 said:

Mark, I fear we are both "bell-enders" - but at opposite ends of the distribution! mg:

Tight Lines :thumbs:

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Ask not for whom the bell tolls......

That comment cost me a mouthful of good coffee when I read it, Michael. Nice one.....

dorsetandchub said:

....That comment cost me a mouthful of good coffee when I read it, Michael. Nice one.....

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Hi Phil,
S'pose I owe ya a cuppa - but probably owe Mark a pint or two as well! mg:
Tight Lines :thumbs:

Noooo, you don't owe me a wooden nickel matey. Be nice to catch up for a few beers in the warmer months and, with another Shakespearean reference, go measure for measure.

Interesting point from Benny, My first teacher was the old man, then the occasional bank-side angler who would offer a tip and then the Angling Times which was read avidly back in the day. Then there was the occasional TV program, Jack Hargreaves was always good for a tip or two.
But you never had ask a question and get an instant 10-20 replies from a wide variety of anglers all over the country. The only equivalent was go to the library and look something up if pushed. So, it must make better anglers generally. Less fumbling around making the same mistakes many times over and new trends/new ideas must filter through very quickly than they did in the past. However, the old grey matter can be overloaded a bit, faced with too many choices you are more likely to pick the wrong one; just faced with one or three tried and tested baits/methods - maybe it was not such a bad thing once. It did make you use your own brain more than relying on others, you had to work it out for yourself a lot of the time and that was one of the joys of it. Do we make it too easy for the new angler now? Maybe, but we cannot say to every new questioner "go and work it for yourself" can we! However, it was in some ways more enjoyable and satisfying doing that. The internet generations brains will probably shrink over time through lack of exercise and they will probably evolve backwards to walking on all fours! there is some evidence of that happening

I think match fishing was my training ground. I began Club match fishing in the late 1950's through to 1998 and during that time I watched, listened and learnt. I never had a problem with anglers with-holding information. In those days the instruction was generally relayed in the tackle shop or more often in the pub. So inspite of myself, some things stuck. Sadly those days have gone. Club match fishing today is nowhere as varied or as intense as it used to be and that is a lose to any newcomers to the sport. Pete.