In Search of Baby Barbel

John McLaren · Oct 30, 2008

"Ian Hirst, fisheries specialist, said: 'The popularity of fishing for barbel has grown over the past decade but we are struggling to understand where the young barbel are coming from.'"

Sounds like sex education should be included in courses for fisheries specialists!/forum/smilies/wink_smiley.gif

Seriously though, it could be an interesting study to find out where the spawning grounds are and how the fish migrate. It seems to me that barbel move downstream as they grow as the bigger specimens in most rivers tend to come from the downstream and, in some cases, tidal reaches whereas big chub are often found in the upper reaches suggesting that that species does not move too far from home as they grow.

What do others think?

peter crabtree · Oct 30, 2008

interesting question.many barbel are caught in weirpools,surely that is upstream.

Fred Bonney · Oct 30, 2008

Depends where you are on the river surely, Peter?

My guess is, it's far easier for fish to move downstream, moving upstream of weirpools may generally only occur in flood.

I think thegeneral view is that barbel are travellers, possibly because of angler recognition, and records.

Other species?

Apart from trout and salmon, I just wonder if any research has been done on this,much along the linesof taging fish. It would surprise me if it hasn't.

Dicky (Angling Trust PAC) · Oct 30, 2008

According to THIS ARTICLEon Severn barbel...

Both Hunt and Jones (1974b) and Hancock (1976) studied the movements of barbel in the Severn. From their recapture data Hunt and Jones suggest two discrete components of the population, one static and the other mobile.

Hancock, who continued the mark-recapture work but used different analysis techniques confirmed the two components of the population and convincingly suggested a home range of only 2 km for the static component. Both groups of workers present evidence indicating that the mobile populations are composed of larger individuals and that the main movements occur in the spawning period of May–July with a maximum recorded upstream movement of 40 km. 0+ barbel fry were found predominantly in the extensive gravel reaches between Ironbridge and Shrewsbury (Sites S1 to S4, Fig. 1) well upstream of the principal home ranges of the adults (Sites S5 to S8, Fig. 1).

So it seems some travel and some don't, and that small barbel may be absent from many stretches.

MJ · Oct 30, 2008

John -
I think fish in each river will behave differently, due to the availability of spawning, nursery and feeding habitats. I expect we find big chub in the upper reaches of some rivers because they are opportunistic, and excellent predators. The chub can feed on young trout, salmon and lesser species like bullheads (and crayfish where they thrive). Barbel are more benthic grazers, so to find the big fish in the more productive, lowland, deeper reaches makes sense.

Fred -
Some really interesting studies have been done by the EA recently with bream on the Welland, radio-tracking individual fish. They found regular diurnal movements - habitual migrations made every day and night within the normal range of the shoal fish - between the main river and a side channel.Really interestingly though, a one-off event occurred where the whole shoal travelled upto 30km in a 24hr period, and thencame back to 'home' a couple of days later. It could have well been an annual spawning migration?

Baby barbel seem to be like baby pigeons though - we all know they exist but you just dont see them until they get bigger. I fish in places where I can catch loads of tiny dace and chublets, but never a juvenile barbel (under 2lb) in the same area.

Bryan Baron 2 · Oct 30, 2008

I would tend to agree with that ****y. I have only ever caught baby barbs on in the shallower areas of around 2-3 foot with relative slow flow. Must admit this is when i have been fishing the shallows with float and feeder with maggots as bait.

I did hear once that the youn barbs spend a lot of time buried in the silt or sand. How true this is i am not sure.

Steve Handley · Oct 30, 2008

Baby barbel seem to be as mysterious as baby tench. We know they must be there, but are rarely caught. It may be that their natural instinct is to hide away from predators and very rarely do theystray into open water.

With regards to fish movements during spawning time on rivers, I've always believed that the majority of fish species travel upstream to spawn in thefaster more oxygenated water and this also compensates for the naturally drifting downstream of their fry.

On the Trent, the Environment Agency use this upstream migration during spawning time to catch barbel for their eggs, which are then transferred to Calverton Fish Farm for future stocking on the river and for those still water barbel commercials. The adult fish are returned to the river and marked with a small dye spot.

I know on one of my local stretches of the middle Trent, that the barbel fishing would often improve later into the season when it was believed that the fish would naturally drop downstream from their early season haunts around the weirs.

Keith M · Oct 31, 2008

I'm not sure about the larger Barbel prefering the lower stretches and Tidal stretches as the current record comes from the Milton Keynes AC stretch of the Upper Great Ouse doesn't it? and there are quite a few high doubles caught regularly around the Bedford area, including the Vauxhall AC/verulum ACstretches.

When my mates and I used to fish the Kennet in and around Reading there were stretches which we called the nursery stretches where we used to catch a lotmore Barbel but smaller Barbel and stretches where we didn't catchas many but they were amuchlarger, what makes the Barbel like these different areas depending on their size I would love to know as there are classic Barbel swims in both stretches.

It appears from the articles I've read that on the Hampshire Avon the larger Barbelare foundin the Avon around the Royalty area (near tothe coast) as opposed to further upstream.

On the Upper Lea where its like a stream they are predominately smaller (2 to 7lb) but even there the odd double sometimes appears.

Wherethe majorityof really small Barbel live ie. under 12oz (apart from the odd few that we catch) will be great to find out.

There are lots of different views on the subject but it's about time something like thiswas done and like most I can't wait to read their results.

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Fred Bonney · Oct 31, 2008

Keith, does anybody fish the tidal stretch of the Gt Ousefor barbel?

MJ, that's interesting, anywhere on t'internet I can see the report(s)?

It would be interesting to see thenumbers involved, it does seem a bit quick for a spawning session.

Keith M · Oct 31, 2008

I don't know much about the tidal stretches of the Great Ouse but I have read various reports by anglers in the area on different forumsand non seem to even mention Barbel, but this may be inaccurate.

Does anyone on this sitefish for Barbel on the Tidal stretches of the Great Ouse?

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Fred Bonney · Oct 31, 2008

Untapped potential perhaps?

A bit like the tidal Trent, I suppose.

It'll be interesting to see any responses, maybe, even the burbotare still down there!!!!/forum/smilies/wink_smiley.gif

Robin Briscoe · Oct 31, 2008

The Great Ouse does not really have a tidal section in coarse fishing terms. The river runs into the great water control system based around Denver sluice that controls the upper Fen areas. Below Denver the main river is very brackish with the salt water running about 12 miles up from the river mouth at Kings Lynn. At present, because of problems with the sluice system at Denver, in times of peak flow the River water is actually diverted through the Relief Channel.

I fish the bottom end of the Ouse along the Ten Mile bank section and up to Littleport, where the river is deep and wide, but have never heard of any Barbel being caught. The river here is really a Bream, Tench and Roach water with even Chubb being a very rare catch. If there were any in this section I think the Bream anglers and the growing number of carpers should come across them now and again

Fred Bonney · Oct 31, 2008

So, what ever gravel runs there were down there, were wiped out by the Dutchmen then.

Mark Wintle · Oct 31, 2008

Hardly the 'barbel' zone is it?

John McLaren · Oct 31, 2008

I said "It seems to me that barbel move downstream as they grow as the bigger specimens in most rivers tend to come from the downstream.....reaches" because I was conscious of a number of rivers where that might not be the case. The Great Ouse is clearly a case in point and I have fishe the upper Lea and know how big barbel can come out of a tiny stream, however thenature of those rivers is quite different from the Ribble, Wye, Severn etc where, in general terms, the bigger barbel do seem to be reported from the lower stretches of those rivers.

For the past couple of years I have occasionally fished a stretch of the Ribble from where I could pretty well guarantee fish up to 1lb but they generally came to trotted maggot andfrom the edge of a deep pool which is situated close to fairly extensive streamy gravelly runs. However this year these fish have been noticeably absent. It may be the weather or cormorants but I am inclined to think that they have moved on to better feeding (up or downstream) but as yet not been replaced, in what is obviously a good holding spot, by a later year class.

The Great Ouse study could be interesting but it may not give us clues as to what goes on in other rivers. I know that one or two members do snorkelling in rivers (Jim Hinchley for example) and I wonder if they have any insights into the location of small barbel.

Incidentally I did once catch a tiny barbel (I've had bigger gudgeon) from the Parlour Pool on the Royalty but that was one of a stocking that had been made that year!

The bad one · Oct 31, 2008

Regarding studies of fish movements, our poster the good Dr Stuart Clough is your man.

Stuart and Dr Paul Garner did many studies on the River Frome and elsewhere using radio traking. Much of their findings were published in Scintific Journals, such as Freshwater Forum the Journal of the Freshwater Biological Association.

One relating to the habitat use of cyprinid fish 0+ years old in the Great Ouse is by Paul.

The reference for this is P.Garner (1997), Freshwater Forum 8,Freshwater Biological. Association, Ambleside. p 2-28.

Sorry can't paste the paper on here as it's copyrighted.

Stuart might if he reads this threat put upa full paper as he owns the CR.

Bryan Baron 2 · Oct 31, 2008

That would be a intersesting read.

Lets hope he puts a article together for the site.

The bad one · Oct 31, 2008

John make reference to the Ribble - it is a documented fact that dace migrate for the winter.On the Ribble I know of two places where the shoaled up in the winter, Dinkley Pool and under M6 in the pool there back in the times before the black death ravaged the river.

The Welsh Dee was the same with the winter shoaling taking place around the Farndon area.

Likewise on the Cumbrian Eden they shoaled up from the town centre Memorial Park down. On all these river you never got the catches 30 -70lb in the summer, only ever in the winter.

Fred Bonney · Oct 31, 2008

It is well known, roach move into the warmer waters of town centres, during the winter.

The Welland at Spalding being a classic example.

In Search of Baby Barbel

John McLaren

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peter crabtree

AKA Simon, 1953 - 2022 (RIP)

Fred Bonney

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Dicky (Angling Trust PAC)

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