''Indigenous species''

Derek Gibson · Jun 21, 2016

Following on from the thread ''Has the Trent got the potential'', how many of you feel that we would have been better off ''without'' the inclusion of any foreign predator species? For my part I feel that we have sufficient ''predators'' without any additions.

But the fact remains they are here and already well established. So for me as a predator angler I have no choice in the matter but to accept the fact reluctantly. But what about you?

mightyboosh · Jun 21, 2016

Variety is the spice of life!

tigger · Jun 21, 2016

Derek Gibson said:
Following on from the thread ''Has the Trent got the potential'', how many of you feel that we would have been better off ''without'' the inclusion of any foreign predator species? For my part I feel that we have sufficient ''predators'' without any additions.

But the fact remains they are here and already well established. So for me as a predator angler I have no choice in the matter but to accept the fact reluctantly. But what about you?

It's illegal to release an invasive species if you do catch one (unless it's a purpose built place) so your supposed to kill it. If a wels catfish is ever unlucky enough to be caught by myself i'll have no qualms about despatching it, no matter how small or large it is.

One of the clubs i' m a member of have had some small wels ilegally stocked into an old established tench water and the wels are now coming out to 15lb plus...within 4yrs of being stuck in there.
The water is about an acre and a half tops with a lot of the water being lined with a deep mas of rushes and a lot being shallow water, the tench fishing has dropped off significantly already!
People have the nerve to slag off cormorants etc and yet like the idea of putting these invasive fish munching slugs into our waters all because they want to catch one and fekc the consequences for our native fish.....and animals!

Lord Paul of Sheffield · Jun 21, 2016

in the rivers will not the pike and Zander levels balance out after a period of time

thecrow · Jun 21, 2016

As Rainbow Trout are at times predatory should these be included?

How about Barbel that are not indigenous to certain rivers that are also at time predatory?

How far does one go?

mikench · Jun 21, 2016

I too would dispatch a catfish if I was ever unfortunate enough to catch one.

I assume all eels are indigenous and are returned to the water!

maggot_dangler · Jun 21, 2016

thecrow said:
As Rainbow Trout are at times predatory should these be included?

How about Barbel that are not indigenous to certain rivers that are also at time predatory?

How far does one go?

I would go as far as including Carp in the list as well.

PG...

Sent from my 8055 using Tapatalk

Keith M · Jun 21, 2016

thecrow said:
As Rainbow Trout are at times predatory should these be included?

How about Barbel that are not indigenous to certain rivers that are also at time predatory?

How far does one go?

I fish the well known upper stretches of a river in Hertfordshire that is full of Barbel where 20-plus Barbel in a day is not uncommon in some swims, however there are also thousands of Chub, Roach, Dace, Perch, Gudgeon, minnows and a few Carp all thriving in there so I don't think that Barbel will ever be a real threat to fish stocks compared to Catfish who are known for eating Carp to well over 10lb as they grow larger LOL.

NB: The Barbel are indigenous to the river in question however pullution had done its damage in the past and thinned them out but nowerdays the rivers main enemy is abstraction. I won't name the river but many on here who have read my posts or fished it themselves will know it already.

There is also the very occasional Trout wandering through and Mink are very occasionally sighted there too; but the fish are thriving in there.
NB: Thankfully Otters have not been seen there yet; although they are regularly seen a few miles downstream so it won't be long

However Catfish are another thing; Both of the clubs that I belong to have had catfish illegally stocked by persons unknown. In one club water catfish have been caught up to 53lb, and in my other clubs estate lake they have been caught up to 44lb. (thankfully both clubs policies are to remove them when caught). Tench (which I love) and Crucians are now very rare in the estate lake these days but there are lots of Bream (Spit!,; excuse me but I had to spit after mentioning the 'B' word Lol) so maybe Cats don't like snotties as much as the other species (and who can blame them Lol.); the large Turkish Crays that were in there seem to have also disappeared since the arrival of the Cats, so at least theres one plus Lol.

Keith

rayner · Jun 21, 2016

last year I caught a Terrapin from the small pond Where I fish for Crucians.
So the bloke a couple of pegs away heard me swearing and said what have you got ? he came for a look. Just as I was trying to dispatch it with the sole of my boot.
The chap attempted to intervene to my disgust, after about 5 stamps the Terrapin looked in a better state than I was plus the chap could well have had a broken finger at least.
My knife killed it and it was left on the bank behind me. The bailiff came later and told me I would be expected to kill any others.
The chap said if that's the way we carry on at the fishery he would not fish there again.
I brought a smile when he was there the week after.

It took me some time to get there but all animal, plant, bird or fish that doesn't belong here should be encouraged to leave one way or another.

john step · Jun 21, 2016

Keith M said:
I fish the well known upper stretches of a river in Hertfordshire that is full of Barbel where 20 plus in a day is not that uncommon in some swims, however there are also thousands of Roach, Dace, Perch, Gudgeon, Chub and minnows

Keith

I think I know that water. I was a member when the barbel were stocked. They were about 6 to 8 ozs. They didn't affect the rest of the fish but lots of the carp that had migrated up from Welwyn were removed.
Nice to know they thrived.

vort · Jun 21, 2016

It's pretty uncontroversial to be against introducing foreign wildlife into any natural habitat. However, once fish like barbel and zander have established then it's not easy to get rid of them - not just from a practical point of view but also because some anglers like catching them. Mick Brown once pointed out, on a TV program, that it's not the zander's fault that they were introduced and that after a few years a balance will be achieved.
i believe that water quality has a FAR bigger effect on our fishing than any introduced predator.

Keith M · Jun 21, 2016

vort said:
It's pretty uncontroversial to be against introducing foreign wildlife into any natural habitat. However, once fish like barbel and zander have established then it's not easy to get rid of them - not just from a practical point of view but also because some anglers like catching them. Mick Brown once pointed out, on a TV program, that it's not the zander's fault that they were introduced and that after a few years a balance will be achieved.
i believe that water quality has a FAR bigger effect on our fishing than any introduced predator.

The Barbel has been present in some of our eastern facing rivers well before the uk was physically seperated from the continent in geo-history.

However humans are particularly adept at upsetting things by introducing wildlife/fish species to places where it has never existed before or hasn't existed for hundreds of years and upsetting the new natural balance; often wrongly thinking that we are doing good or in the name of sport. When will humans ever learn???

Catfish, Beaver, Mink, Otters, Foriegn Crayfish, Zander the never ending list goes on and on, some of them are not as bad as others but species usually die out or move to other places for a good reason (unfortunately it's usually us) and they will usually re-spread quite happily without our help when conditions are favourable.

Keith

flightliner · Jun 21, 2016

Bass, any type, big mouth, black, whatever. Awfull cretures, seen em in action in Italy. Ok for fertiliser !.

Neil Maidment · Jun 21, 2016

A few terrapins in the Dorset Stour, a couple of which are of a size you perhaps wouldn't want to argue with

mg:

Far too many of the gravel pits I know are now, if not dominated soon will be, by catfish. Unfortunately there is a growing market of anglers wanting to catch one - a big one!

The Hants Avon, in certain parts, is as I type, heaving with rainbow trout (escapees or releases? :wh ). They wont last long but just another example of how are rivers and lakes change.

S-Kippy · Jun 21, 2016

I'm not one for introducing anything that doesn't really belong here BUT once they are in and established there is little chance of removing them. So eg zander & cats are here to stay whether we like it or not. What we don't need is numpties moving fish around illegally.

However....catfish eat signal crays do they not ? Anything that eats signals gets my vote !

tigger · Jun 21, 2016

S-Kippy said:
However....catfish eat signal crays do they not ? Anything that eats signals gets my vote !

Signal crayfish are top of an otters favourite food list.

Tench and eels are favourites of catfish.

A catfish will do far more damage to fish stocks than any of the native fish eating birds or mamals we have.

At the end of the day rats are here to stay but we kill 'em as and when we can.

S-Kippy · Jun 21, 2016

tigger said:
Signal crayfish are top of an otters favourite food list.

Tench and eels are favourites of catfish.

A catfish will do far more damage to fish stocks than any of the native fish eating birds or mamals we have.

At the end of the day rats are here to stay but we kill 'em as and when we can.

I've no problem with otters...they are indigenous. The damned crays are not. Could we not train rats to eat crayfish ?

tigger · Jun 21, 2016

S-Kippy said:
I've no problem with otters...they are indigenous. The damned crays are not. Could we not train rats to eat crayfish ?

Lol, that would be good...eeven better if we could train otters to munch on catfish

.

Don't forget, white clawed are indigenous crays, the signals are destroying them though!

S-Kippy · Jun 21, 2016

Yes...its the damned signals I want wiped out. Aquatic cockroach.

Ray Daywalker Clarke · Jun 21, 2016

Keith M said:
I fish the well known upper stretches of a river in Hertfordshire that is full of Barbel where 20-plus Barbel in a day is not uncommon in some swims, however there are also thousands of Chub, Roach, Dace, Perch, Gudgeon, minnows and a few Carp all thriving in there so I don't think that Barbel will ever be a threat to fish stocks compared to Catfish who are known for eating Carp to well over 10lb as they grow larger LOL.

Keith

I know where your talking about Keith. On the other hand, another section of the same river further up stream, is now void of any other species, it's Barbel and Barbel only. It's only taken 4 years from when the barbel first showed to clear the section of all other species. It's boring fishing, i had 35 in a morning session of about 5 hours. fish from 4lb to 9lb plus, just under double figures. I don't bother going there now.

I would be more than happy to knock the barbel on the head, but like Catfish, Carp and Zander, they are here now, so we just have to get on with it.

I have nothing against Otters, our rivers stock levels were at an all time high before man took it upon themselves to kill the Otter off. Then our rivers went down hill, and strange that many rivers are now doing better since the Otter has returned.

Man trying to change Nature also doesn't work, we are best letting nature take care, as it only comes back and bites us on the Ar$e.

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