How crucial are lightvalues and water temp.

I know that the above fill certain anglers with confidence as it has done for many years. In fact I flirted with the subject myself many years ago, spurred on by **** Walker's (yes that man again) conviction that light values played a key role when Roach fishing. So much so that he habitually checked this with a photographic light meter, likewise with water temp's checked with a thermometer. It goes without saying there are other factors ie water clarity, and barometric pressure, but we could go on and on, so I'll content myself with the two noted.

Do any of you guys utilise a similar approach for any species?

Good question Derek....

I have a two-part answer on this one.... part one goes something like this: I believe that there are definitely conditions which favour the type of angling I do, which tends to be mostly bait-fishing for fish like chub, carp, tench, roach, bream, barbel... so given the choice, I would like less light - overcast rather than sunny, and without it raining then the darker the better. Also, in terms of temperature, I'd like a warmer than usual winter day, or a cooler than usual summer day. That's what I want given the choice...

Part two of the answer goes like this: I can't just drop everything else in my life and go fishing when I please because the conditions look good. With work and family commitments, if a man like myself wants to spend a whole day (or even better, a weekend!) fishing then he needs a pretty long run up! So for example, I'm currently looking at planning a long weekend in October (either on the wye or severn) which I will likely commit to a date for in about three weeks time. So when that date comes around, I will go fishing regardless of what the weather's doing, because that's how it has to be. And then - I will cut my cloth in terms of the techniques I use according to the conditions I find. That may sound like the tail is wagging the dog, but like I say it's just what happens.

(all of that said, at this time of year it's a lot easier to grab a couple of hours in the evening as and when I can, but it usually involves taking one of the kids with me and then it's not quite the same as going by yourself. Not that I'd change it for the world!!!)

I often use the light value to determine where to fish when perching as they generally tend to sit deep in bright conditions and come out to play in shallower water when there's low light.

At the end of the day the values on the day are there for me to try and work with, I believe they're quite crucial but they are what they are and trying to understand them and pitch accordingly will help to get the best out of a session rather than postponing a session until you think the values are right.

Derek Gibson said:

....Do any of you guys utilise a similar approach for any species?

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I went through a phase of recording water temps a year or so ago - found very little difference in catch rates - other than water temp needed to be above 10C for a couple of days to get the Tench started!
Abandoned the measurements after a Carp went for the sensor when putting it in the lake - took off with it - pulled the digital thermometer in!
Managed to get the unit back with a net from where it rested in the weeds - minus the sensor and lead!

As Jim says:

I will go fishing regardless of what the weather's doing, because that's how it has to be. And then - I will cut my cloth in terms of the techniques I use according to the conditions I find.

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Waiting for the ideal day is a dreadful waste of fishing time.
Having had a friend die after 6mths of retirement - most of which had been spent waiting for a better day to fish - taught me a lesson - go when you can!

Roach mostly in my case. I used to fish a backwater on the Lea. Summer or winter the bites didn't happen until dusk when you could get the chance of a big one.

There again a deep venue I fish can produce on the brightest of days if you fish deep enough.

Same for those Lower Trent barbel if you can find the deeper runs. Easier than stumbling around in the night! And boy do I stumble on those rocks. I wouldn't like to fall in there in the dark. I tend to pack up as darkness falls.

Please gents don't give me something else to do and think about Isn't life complicated enough

For the last 10 or so years I have limited my fishing times to late afternoons and evenings untill just after dark and I've caught some cracking fish and definately a lot more decent sized fish than I ever caught when I fished right through the daylight hours and was home by around 6 or 7.

I only fish right through the daylight hours when the days are short during the depths of winter now.

Keith

mikench said:

Please gents don't give me something else to do and think about Isn't life complicated enough

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Just as before Mike. Take it slowly. Don't burn out!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Derek,

Perch are the obvious example of light values, although I don't think water temperature plays much of a part in their feeding habits ?

Dawn and dusk in low light are the two main feeding times in my experience, for the rest of the day your wasting your time !!

Bob

Bob Hornegold said:

Derek,

Perch are the obvious example of light values, although I don't think water temperature plays much of a part in their feeding habits ?

Dawn and dusk in low light are the two main feeding times in my experience, for the rest of the day your wasting your time !!

Bob

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My experiences tally with yours Bob, and to a lesser degree Pike also.

Well the sun played it's part at the Wey fish in, but fish were still caught.

The next day, rain, cloud and low light, and the fish played ball with Roger, Jimmy and Neil, water level was no different.


I only fish all day if it's a day with mates, or a fish in.

When doing a long session i don't bother to fish much after 10am, if it's bright and very hot. I tend to get a bit of shut eye. Then I am able to fish well into the night and get first light in the morning.

But as we know only to well, there will be days when the fish will feed no matter how hot or bright it is.

binka said:

I often use the light value to determine where to fish when perching as they generally tend to sit deep in bright conditions and come out to play in shallower water when there's low light.

At the end of the day the values on the day are there for me to try and work with, I believe they're quite crucial but they are what they are and trying to understand them and pitch accordingly will help to get the best out of a session rather than postponing a session until you think the values are right.

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most tips this season have seen perch going on the hunt at twilight-thinking seriously about taking a light spinning rod for just such events.

When trotting for barbel and chub i've always had my best results midday to 4 or 5pm on hot bright sunny days.
Thinking about it the same applies to legering for them also.

Carp: light values not so important as with some other species, it is more a question of preferred feeding times with carp not necessarily light value. Water temperature is important, I believe that big carp do not feed well in water temperatures of less than 47F, this is because they only feed to maintain their metabolism and unlike smaller carp which do feed in much lower temperatures, because the smaller carp are still growing.

Roach: light values for bigger roach are vital. Light values are also effected by water colour, I will also fish specific swims which are shady in the evenings. The moon, even in daylight will effect how bigger roach feed. Obviously there is no set pattern or formula, just because it is dark does not always mean the roach will be feeding, they seem to feed in short bursts, it's all or nothing. Water temperatures are not quite so important but if the water temperature is less than 42F I am not so confident. Anther factor to consider is the actual size of the roach; smaller roach will feed in bright conditions. Conversly, why do quality roach sometimes feed in bright conditions on float fished hemp?

Perch: definately feed better in low light though low water temperature does not necessarily stop them feeding.

There are always exceptions, we have all caught in bright blue skies with the sun blazing down but overall it would be stupid for us to ignore light values and water temperatures.

What always amazes me is that it seems, what ever the conditions, that all the fish of a certain species are feeding at the same time or none at all. They all seem to switch on and off together, even big carp which are not really shoal fish, are caught on opposite sides of a lake at the same time.

Used to pay attention to high or low pressure, full sun or cloud.
These days I have three days when I fish and work on I get what I get.
Some days are very tricky but yesterday was one of the easier days.
As for the two options you give, cold water has more of an adverse effect to my fishing and the fish.

I just wonder if the fish stop feeding for just the right light and temperature. . If so they would be very skinny fish. I think light and temperature may affect where they feed but it just means you change your tactics to suit the conditions. Extreme cold will put some fish into slow feed mode as their metabolism slows, but too hot lowers the oxygen and makes them lethargic. Too many variables to just us 2 as a guide.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

Its somewhat differant on a muddy tidal river like the Trent.
Turn up on a very high tide just before it reaches its highest level, its a thick muddy colour, very muddy.
Start fishing as it starts to fall and its likely that Bream will be the first to respond.
later as the colour drops out o the river becoming a little clearer and the bream stop feeding and the roach will respond really enthusiastically, finally as the river runs really clear prior to rising again dace will begin to dominate the catches. A rough rule of thumb but as with all generalisations it has the been accepted as a guide by many Trent regulars over the years.

Still water fishing many times a week ( although not of late ) I have to go with what the day brings. As with the majority, I will always feel more confident with low light levels caused by low cloud and/or rain. I fish mainly for roach and crucians and if I find the day is likely to be bright or even sunny I will fish certain swims that offer maximum shade either given by overhead trees or lily pads....in fact anything that reduces light levels over a given number of hours and that includes depth of water !

That said, I have to say ( having chosen the ' wrong ' swim in the first place ) I have caught some very decent bags of roach in dappled shade and even brightish sun, so it doesn't always pay to be too particular. In fact fishing ' seeds ' as I do more often than not, some sunshine can get the roach feeding to a fish a cast level, but they tend to be smaller fish on average with the occasional bigger fish.

I always check temperature at different depths and in various parts of a water but this more in winter when I'm looking for any serious drops during a very cold spell. It's more a confidence thing in that at least I know the fish MIGHT feed and I'm not totally wasting my time !
Breaking ice to fish needs to be worthwhile.......................

In summary, I suggest it's as much a challenge to try to catch in ANY conditions rather than wait for the ' ideal ' day, so I would place more emphasis on swim choice for my type of fishing !


ps I recall Walker fishing Arseley Lakes for very big perch in bright conditions, but ( from memory ) he was fishing in 40' of water ( or more ) where the light levels where very low. In fact I think he wrote he preferred bright conditions at this particular water ! Might need to check that, though !
Had 4lb plus fish and lost a lot bigger ?

In fact, didn't he write that when reeling in a very good perch, he had another come from the depths and grab the hooked fish across the back ? Perhaps he was watching someone else and saw it happen when standing above the angler on the lake rim.....Eat you heart out, Binka !!!

flightliner said:

Its somewhat differant on a muddy tidal river like the Trent.
Turn up on a very high tide just before it reaches its highest level, its a thick muddy colour, very muddy.
Start fishing as it starts to fall and its likely that Bream will be the first to respond.
later as the colour drops out o the river becoming a little clearer and the bream stop feeding and the roach will respond really enthusiastically, finally as the river runs really clear prior to rising again dace will begin to dominate the catches. A rough rule of thumb but as with all generalisations it has the been accepted as a guide by many Trent regulars over the years.

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Is that down to varying species using sight more than smell. I would think bream use smell more, roach a bit of both and dace mainly sight as they seem to swim mainly mid water looking for tit bits. I wonder if that's the same for perch being a predator, they can spot prey in certain light conditions better than others so they become active.

---------- Post added at 06:13 ---------- Previous post was at 05:44 ----------

All these species must have evolved to take advantage of different feeding/conditions. Is that why they became different species? Its vary rare to catch a lot of different species in one go. Logically the conditions what ever they are must suit one species more than others at any given time. It might just be one or two tiny things but that must be. I can fish one day and catch a load of something, return a week later in what I think are identical conditions and catch a load of something else entirely. Were the conditions identical really! Has a slight change in temperatures, light levels, moon phase, water color etc; unnoticeable to me caused something else to switch on and/or something else to switch off?
I have been recording conditions for years and no two days are ever the same.
Heres a thought:-
Out of 9 different conditions recorded split into very broad categories on any day I have 10,0776,960 possible combinations of conditions. Even If I cut that down a bit with only 4 possible air temps and water temps ranges instead of the full 9 I use as its more realistic I still come up with 1,658,880 possible condition combinations.
The first figure would could be multiplied if I used the full range of temperatures, wind speeds, weather etc to
1.56E+12 (1560000,000,000)
No two days are ever the same for fish in their lifetime or mine trying to catch them!
Just thought I would show how much fun fishing can be!! Try chucking a worm in and hope for the best is always another option. however, I still think there's a good day for catching bream or Snot.!

Numbers used :-

month -12,1 , 12
wind dir -9 ,9, 9
wind speed - 4,4,40
weather type-4 ,4, 10
air temp - 9 ,4 ,50
water temp - 9 ,4, 50
barometer - 5 ,5, 40
water col - 4 ,4 , 10
moon phase -4 ,4, 4

peterjg said:

Conversly, why do quality roach sometimes feed in bright conditions on float fished hemp?

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Just to remind us that when we think we have worked a water or species out we haven't.