Here’s a carcass for a crow to pick over

https://insideangle.anglingtrust.ne...ckle-deepseated-failures-in-water-management/

Vous êtes un agent provocateur n'est-ce pas mon ami!

mikench said:

Vous êtes un agent provocateur n'est-ce pas mon ami!

Click to expand...

I think Phil knows I don't need to be provoked where the authorities are concerned Mike

Just come in from taking the dog out and have had a quick read through it, on first glance it looks as if those that can achieve something are at last in the mood to do that something, that's until you have another look, 17% of rivers attaining Good Ecological Status is pathetic but then one reads that the figure now is 14% that being so how can anyone believe that those that could do something are about to do that something.

Its my opinion that more money to combat pollution/improve water treatment should come from different area's firstly the amount of profits made by foreign owned water companies are obscene, but then why should a foreign company bother when the fines handed out to them for polluting are not exactly going to break the bank are they?

The price we pay for water should imo reflect the publics will to clean our waters up, unfortunately although lots will moan about our rivers not being of Good Ecological Status and the resulting dwindling of our wildlife but they would also baulk at paying more to achieve anything within the watery environment.

This country and the water companies waste so much water its ridiculous. While the public cannot do anything about water running down the road they can do something about the waste within the home, I have no idea of the figures but there must be a large % of homes in this country with "combi boilers" how much water is wasted while waiting for the water to get hot to wash for instance that's just one example.

"Half of our freshwater wildlife species are in decline" I can think of one that isn't and could be partly responsible for falls in some numbers but imo its mostly caused by habitat destruction and habitat takeover by our ever expanding population, what can be done about the latter I have no idea but there is plenty that can be done about the former.

My problem with this kind of thing is that its all pie in the sky, the Water Framework Directive has been about since iirc the year 2000, in 17 years we have managed to get just 17% tops now down to 14% into a Good Ecological Status, yes other rivers have improved but as well as those 17/14% but if that's this country trying I see no future for our waters I hope I am wrong and my grandchildrens children will live in a world of clean water and a thriving aquatic environment but those doubts just keep niggling away at me.

Hi Graham,
The WFD has been wasted because of the lack of willingness of the EA and water companies to initially agree the contents of the Directive, who should measure it and how, as well as how it should be monitored and enforced.

This prevarification led to the slow uptake and the realisation that we would never meet the standards that WE set in the timescale that WE agreed to! To add to this, the realisation that leaving Europe would mean that we wouldn't need to comply with the WFD, which we'd already received the funding for, has led to the ATr and individual River Trusts to trying to raise the issues with Government - whose response is to try and get out of Europe without having to repay any of the monies given 'on trust'.

Then we get issues like the recent pollution on the Irwell - and the 2 subsequent incidents with the mountains of foam - which flushed through any evidence remaining from the source of previous pollution!

Were any of these High Priorities for the EA? No - Because the wiping out of insect life - fish food - didn't kill any fish at the time! The foam pollutions didn't kill many fish either - because the fish had buggered-off up/downstream looking for their food!mg:

Well ****** me Graham a very constructive rant there

I've held back from getting involved in any of the more 'political' debates on FM as to be honest I'm not at all knowledgable of all that has gone before, the main players and the shenanigans that have obviously raised peoples collective ire.

As someone who has recently returned (very enthusiastically) to angling I am surprised and disappointed to discover that all is most definitely not well in the sport when it comes to governance/representation or whatever you call it that the AT is supposed to provide.

The fact that some anglers are deeply unhappy about Rod Licence fees, that anglers are prepared to publicly vilify each other over the issue of the close season and the general level of disdain with which both the AT and the EA does not bode well for the future of either the sport or the environment in which it is carried out.

So what can I add to the debate?

In my experience when things are FUBAR (google it if you're unsure of what it means) then the only way to get things back on track is drastic action beginning with intervention.

Quite how this translates to the current situation with Angling and the state of our rivers I'm not too sure, but what I DO know is that airing ones grievances and frustrations on online forums will never fix anything.

I'm not saying that these discussions are a waste of time, or that they should stop. In fact were it not for this less light hearted and jovial area of FM I would probably be blissfully unaware of any of these situations.

It is said that if you're not part of the solution you're part of the problem. I believe that whilst this is a simplistic sound bite, broadly speaking it's true.

So how does one (myself obviously included) become part of the solution?

Answers on a postcard please.

BTW, I'm sure that many on these Forums are ALREADY working in many different ways to be part of a positive change. I'd be interested to hear what people think is the most effective way for someone like me to get involved.

greenie62 said:

The WFD has been wasted because of the lack of willingness of the EA and water companies to initially agree the contents of the Directive, who should measure it and how, as well as how it should be monitored and enforced.

Click to expand...

Hand in Hand with each other, its interesting to note that the EAs pension fund invests in the water industry

---------- Post added at 10:01 ---------- Previous post was at 09:38 ----------

fishing4luckies said:

So how does one (myself obviously included) become part of the solution?

Click to expand...

I would love to be able to say that by doing XYZ would help the situation, unfortunately there are far to many fingers in the financial pie for things ever to sorted out to where anglers are united and speaking through whoever with one voice and giving whoever represents us with a clear mandate.

As an example the EA are hell bent on demolishing the weir at Powick on the river Teme, the reason given? to allow Shad (not on the IUCN red list) to gain access to the upper reaches of the river to spawn even though they have been spawning for many years quite successfully below the weir. The EA have admitted that removing the weir will cause a drop in the rivers level above the weir of up to 1 metre they are so hell bent on this that a contractor has already been appointed even though all studies have not yet been completed, if one looks further into this the reason for it becomes imo very obvious, the Shad is being used as a tool to gain £20 million from the EU that the Severn Rivers Trust also have sway over (gets complicated don't it )

The bottom line is that the EA want the weir removed to rush water straight down the Teme into the Severn and away to the sea (drought what drought) this imo is shown to be true as the money for demolition is coming from the flood relief budget, its nothing to do with the Shad which is only a smoke screen to get the £20m hand out from the EU.

It took the Angling Trust a long time to get involved in this but after much cajoling they did but imo it should have been something they wanted to get involved with, the reason they didn't? money that they get from the EA don't bite the hand that feeds you even though angling clubs above the weir will suffer when/if the level drops as will all the wildlife.

So I hope this shows that things are never black and white within all the wrangling that goes on within angling far to many trying to get a slice of the pie and far to many willing to sacrifice whatever to get it.

fishing4luckies said:

....So how does one (myself obviously included) become part of the solution?

Answers on a postcard please.

BTW, I'm sure that many on these Forums are ALREADY working in many different ways to be part of a positive change. I'd be interested to hear what people think is the most effective way for someone like me to get involved.

Click to expand...

Try joining-up with your local Rivers Trust.
Your area comes under the SERT which incorporates the Wandle Trust - one of the earliest and most active of the Trusts. See this link to get an idea what they get upto:The Wandle Trust | Part of the South East Rivers Trust, Reg. Charity No. 1091000

The Trusts usually run as a Charity, Clean-up squad, Environmental monitoring team, EA pita's, etc. - depending on the local setup and skills available.

They can be great ways of meeting-up with other river-users and shareing concerns - and even talking to other club's anglers!

greenie62 said:

Try joining-up with your local Rivers Trust. Your area comes under the SERT which incorporates the Wandle Trust - one of the earliest and most active of the Trusts. See this link to get an idea what they get upto:The Wandle Trust | Part of the South East Rivers Trust, Reg. Charity No. 1091000 The Trusts usually run as a Charity, Clean-up squad, Environmental monitoring team, EA pita's, etc. - depending on the local setup and skills available.

Click to expand...

That's one way of doing it. Our organisation, the Thames Valley Angling Association, also incorporates the Middle Thames Fisheries Consultative, but I am now inclined to form a trust out of that. It might be known as the Middle Thames Fisheries And Rivers Trust, but if think we might all be referred to as MTFARTS. Not good!

We will have to do something though since we now have a share in £1.5m that Thames Water want to grant out on projects in the areas affected by those pollutions. I have a few projects in mind and a start has been made or researching who owns what and what licences are know about. There's a lot of red tape to be got through before a digger can break the soil, so to speak, but we are onto it now.

I think the guys on the EA Fisheries teams are superb and ready to help wherever they can, but as I've often said, the EA is one of the biggest DISorganisations in this country. How can it be that one department, Fisheries, is trying to protect the riverine species, whilst another, Navigations, is willing to rip up valuable spawning habitats? Is that a "protect the environment" culture? If so, I have the wrong idea...

The WFD is just what it is, a Directive, it is not law and therefore some members of EA staff like to cherry-pick at what should be addressed and what can and will be ignored depending on what they wish to do. The biggest problem they have is to represent so many conflicting sports and pass-times, cruisers and anglers DO NOT MIX! Neither do canoeists on some rivers, nor free-swimmers in the spawning season (Bang goes the closed season protection.)

It's a difficult problem, but we do what we can with what we have at the time we have it. Simple as that and just hope that we leave this earth in a far better condition than it was when we arrived on it.

Jeff Woodhouse said:

It's a difficult problem, but we do what we can with what we have at the time we have it. Simple as that and just hope that we leave this earth in a far better condition than it was when we arrived on it.

Click to expand...

I fear that will not be the case Jeff, as globally with the idiots currently in power we are going backwards